Levy Spearmen don't have a bonus VS horses

[The_Doctor]

Is this a bug?

It says in the description that they are good against horse units, but they don't have a bonus against them. I even check the .txt with all the unit information in.

[Ziaelas]

Hmmm, they are levies, and therefore low level conscripted spearmen, with no real skill. I've been able to wipe them out with horses quite easily. Perhaps they have a small horse bonus, but one which won't turn the tide of a battle.

[_Aetius_]

Makes you wonder what use they then serve, from what i've seen of them they are extremely unreliable to the point where i've seen peasants stand their ground longer. Its a mystery to me how such utterly useless units actually get into the game.

[Red Harvest]

Which one of the four levy spearmen. Excel file given to me says that they get +8 spear bonus or +4 depending on which unit you are talking about. It was extracted from the units file for BI. Can't say myself as I don't have BI.

[Ziaelas]

Which one of the four levy spearmen. Excel file given to me says that they get +8 spear bonus or +4 depending on which unit you are talking about. It was extracted from the units file for BI. Can't say myself as I don't have BI.

*GASP* Thou must run to thy nearest shop and acquire it now!

Also, I think he is talking about Levy Spearmen in Central Europe (Franks, Saxons, Rebels), not the Sassanid ones.

[The_Doctor]

Yeah the Saxon and Frank ones.

The Franks have no anti-horse infantry, other then mercs.

[CountMRVHS]

Hmm, that seems wrong to me. I'd still use 'em as anti-horse infantry -- they have worked well enough for me in the past. Also, the Frankish and Saxon type of Levy Spearmen can throw javs -- not a mean feat if you ask me. My Saxon army will always find a use for Levy Spearmen.

CountMRVHS

[Saracen_Warrior]

Oh. I thought you were talking abotu levies in Regular RTW. Im was gonna say I dont know what you talking about they work pretty well. But now I'll say I dont know what your talking about I dont have BI. BUt i will et it after i get SHogun, so I have all three Total Wars. How many people do have all 3, and have beaten them at least once. Ive beaten Med and VI and now Rome. ANd jsut ordered Shogun.

[Red Harvest]

Yeah the Saxon and Frank ones.

The Franks have no anti-horse infantry, other then mercs.

Might want to recheck that, as it shows +4 spear bonus in the Excel file I have for all three "light_spear, spear_bonus_4". Don't know if it is actually *working* since the unit is javelin primary. However this sort of arrangement seems to work in RTW for Forester warband with archer primary in RTW--although those guys are not exactly pushovers anyway.

[professorspatula]

Units with Light_spear attribute (such as the ones you mentioned) don't show the 'Bonus versus Cavalry' ability as far as I'm aware. Light spear suggests the bonus received is less than the regular 'spear' attribute, but probably also gives less of a penalty against other infantry. I think regular spear attribute gives a +2 bonus for other non-spear infantry that attack the unit or something along those lines. In other words, the anti-cavalry bonus received by the levies is marginal, but still there. That's what I imagine, although I've never tested it fully.

[Red Harvest]

All infantry units with "light_spear" also get the spear bonus of 4 from what I've seen in the files, all with the regular "spear" attribute get spear bonus of 8 (looking at the new RTW 1.3 settings.)

It takes a rather substantial bonus to have much effect vs. cav., so the +4 and +8 settings make sense. These are in fact similar to what I used when modding the game for myself in 1.2. Now I don't have to mod spears, which is a plus.

[The_Doctor]

So they do have a bonus, I must have been looking in the wrong place.

I think I shall use them more.

[A.Saturnus]

So they do have a bonus, I must have been looking in the wrong place.

I think I shall use them more.

You probably looked at the primary weapon stats.

[professorspatula]

All infantry units with "light_spear" also get the spear bonus of 4 from what I've seen in the files, all with the regular "spear" attribute get spear bonus of 8 (looking at the new RTW 1.3 settings.)

It takes a rather substantial bonus to have much effect vs. cav., so the +4 and +8 settings make sense. These are in fact similar to what I used when modding the game for myself in 1.2. Now I don't have to mod spears, which is a plus.

There appears to be very few values you can set the spear_bonus setting to in my experience. 4 works, as does 8, and possibly 6, but odd numbers and anything lower than 2 causes in an error I think. I wonder why the bonus is so limited.

[Red Harvest]

*GASP* Thou must run to thy nearest shop and acquire it now!

No rush, I'm waiting for it to be out of "beta." Also waiting for RTW to leave beta stage...that's when I will be ready to try BI.

[Tyrac]

BI is a big step above vanilla RTW. I really like it better. I think you should go get it.

[Red Harvest]

BI is a big step above vanilla RTW. I really like it better. I think you should go get it.

Nope, it's a matter of principle. Paid full price for RTW, did what I could on bug reporting. Still waiting to get a more complete game. When RTW is patched properly and BI is also working properly, then I'll be ready to try BI.

[Tyrac]

Nope, it's a matter of principle. Paid full price for RTW, did what I could on bug reporting. Still waiting to get a more complete game. When RTW is patched properly and BI is also working properly, then I'll be ready to try BI.

/shrug I feel even flawed they are worth more then I paid for them considering the hours and hours and hours of entertainment I have been provided with. :)

[Red Harvest]

/shrug I feel even flawed they are worth more then I paid for them considering the hours and hours and hours of entertainment I have been provided with. :)

I consider it lost opportunity cost...I could have gotten into something more finished. I don't like to take up projects that won't be completed. Hence, I'm not going to pound my head against a wall with BI.

I tried the "buy it right away, try to contribute to making it better" approach with RTW. I haven't been satisfied with the result thus far, so I'll go back to the "buy it when it is cheap and all patching is done" approach.

[Slyspy]

I quite agree Red. Even with RTR installed I find the game laughably easy and occassionally broken. Vanilla is just an interactive slideshow.

[A.Saturnus]

Whatever you think of BI, with their javelins levy spearmen are worth the money. They may not be battle winners, but they can cause enough damage and hold out just long enough for others to finish the enemy off.

[dismal]

Whatever you think of BI, with their javelins levy spearmen are worth the money. They may not be battle winners, but they can cause enough damage and hold out just long enough for others to finish the enemy off.

I tend to agree. I have found them to be a decent unit in the early game. You get 3 decent missiles, the shield wall ability (and they are a big enough unit to take up some space with it), and they are very inexpensive.

A row of levy spearmen with shield wall "on" and fire-at-will "on" will dish out some decent damage, and hold its ground for a reasonable amount of time.

[Red Harvest]

Whatever you think of BI, with their javelins levy spearmen are worth the money. They may not be battle winners, but they can cause enough damage and hold out just long enough for others to finish the enemy off.

I don't doubt that. This was one of the obvious unit types missing from RTW. Elephant/chariot javelins, and javelin/spear combos were left out so that we could have wardogs and headhurlers... On the other hand CA might have left them out originally because the AI is not really proficient with these kind of troops, and javelin combat implementation has issues.

[antisocialmunky]

Urg Chariots, glad to get rid of them for all their autocalc brokeness.