Building requirements for Kats?

[Roark]

Hi guys...

I'm in the process of moving house, and so all my MTW documentation is packed away in boxes.

Just started an Early Byz campaign, and I'm keen to know how far away I am from pumping out the Kats in Constantinople.

Cheers...

[m52nickerson]

Horse Breeder Guild and Armourers Guild are what you need.

[dgfred]

Thanks , I'm in yr 1097 of my early Byz game . I've still
got a ways to get to Van Guard.

[Lars Jorgensun]

Kats are overrated IMO. Thier charge isn't much better that Pronoai and thier a hellava lot slower, they can't melee for squat and anti-armour will massacre them.

[IrishMike]

Well in multi you might want to consider the uses of them, but in single player not much that the AI will throw infront of you can stand against them. Just fire at the weak points and forget.

[Lars Jorgensun]

eh I'd rather spend the money on Pronoai and for practically the same attck stat and more speed

[lilljonas]

You get the cats for the pure pleasing sound of millions of rattling metal plates! Mmmmmmmmm..... the sound of victory!

*chingchingchingchingching*

[Roark]

Kats are overrated IMO. Thier charge isn't much better that Pronoai

Kats' charge is the best in the game, same as anything else with a lance...

Kats and Pornos are used for different things anyway...

[m52nickerson]

Since the Byz only get basic spears you can use Kats as a anti-cav, cav. They can soak up a charge better then a-lot on units, and there high defence will let them win against most early cav.

[tigger_on_vrb]

Dont tend to use kats much, except for as a general, but one use for them I have found is in a byz all cavalry army. Hold the line with kats, pronai to flank, byz cav as support, maybe 1 unit of steppe cav to chase horse archers.
mmm...fun

[dgfred]

How effective is Byz Cavalry? I'm early in my 1st Byz game and
I'm not far from Van Guard, but I need to get me some horsies too .

[ajaxfetish]

Kats trained in Constantinople also get a valor bonus, so their stats will actually be higher than those listed to begin with, and with all the armor upgrades (not too difficult since the province is built up so much already) they can be made very hard to kill. Also because of the fantastic Byzantine princes you'll get some kat units with very nice command and some great vices/virtues.

Considering their speed I think of Kats in the same vein as Gothic Knights. Don't worry about flanking or fancy maneuvering, just slam them head-on into the enemy line and while their army is occupied trying to take down these trotting fortresses you can attack their disordered forces with the rest of your army.

Ajax

[ajaxfetish]

How effective is Byz Cavalry? I'm early in my 1st Byz game and
I'm not far from Van Guard, but I need to get me some horsies too .

Byzantine Cavalry are nice. They're one of the more durable horse archers, so you can shoot the enemy up horse-archer style first and then treat your guys like medium cavalry when they run out of arrows or when you need to hit them with a little more. I'm not looking at the stats but I think they're about as powerful in a melee as Mounted Sergeants. They're not shock cavalry, but they're disciplined and very competent.



Ajax

[antisocialmunky]

Byzantine Cavalry is ridiculously good and my favorite cavalry unit as the Byz.

I don't find myself building many Kats. Kats are good, but not great. However, in the SP game, the Byzantines get ridiculously powerful royal generals and their usual +4 valour bonus make Kats great. I find I use Kats to counter charge and a break up a charge of enemy units.

Byzantine Infantry is pretty wimpy moral wise and shouldn't take a full charge. Spearmen suck. Varangian Guard has high defense but cost too much. Kats are heavily armoured and relatively cheap.

I use them as a beat stick in early to counter charge enemy infantry before bashing my BI and VG into them.

[dgfred]

Thanks guys , I didn't even know Byz Cav had arrows .

[NodachiSam]

Lol, I'm going to have to play Byz again to take better advantage of the Byz Calvary then.

[ichi]

Byz Cav are nice, they can shoot and then fight, but TBH they're only just as good as Faris, not nearly as good as Szekely or Boyars. Of course under a high star gen they can get pretty pumped up and do some damage.

The other important Byz option are Porno Cav, very similar to Feudal Knights. Whereas Kats are heavy and slow, and work great for defense, and Byz Cav have the shooting option, Pornos are the best all round attackers in the Byz arsenal.

A good Byz army has all three types, and adds Byz Lancers for trips to the dez.

ichi

[dgfred]

Good to know, thanks ichi .

[Patron]

All Byzantine cavalry is outclassed one way or another.

feudal knights>pronoiai allagion
chivalric knights>kataphraktoi
steppe heavy cavalry>byzantine cavalry
mounted seargants>byzantine lancers

[ichi]

That's generally true, straight up. V0 Porno aren't quite as good as V0 Feudals, V0 Kats aren't quite as good as V0 Gothics, V0 Lancers can't compete with V0 Ghulams, V0 ByzCav get owned by V0 Szeks.

But with the high command star generals the Byz are famous for, these units get pumped up morale and melee stats, and can be used effectively. Even better when built in a well-developed province like Constnatinople.

ichi

[antisocialmunky]

It's the simple fact that they can access all of those with a little teching that makes them good. If only they could produce, Armenian Heavy Cavalry...

[ajaxfetish]

Yes, compared to the contemporary cavalry Byzantine forces are likely to face, their horsemen are dominant, especially when pumped up by their uber-general. Better troops exist, but they simply don't get fielded in sufficient numbers to be a challenge (either because of era-restrictions or build requirements and cost).

Ajax