WW2 with different outcomes

[Upxl]

I would have to disagree.Leningrad was the second largest city of the Soviet Union.It also guarded the Northern railway line from Murmansk to Siberia

If you look at the production/economy scale of +/- 1940 you’ll see that almost everything (almost 80%)of Russian production/resources lied mid/east.
Iron/steal, machine industry, oil, coal, … Leningrad was really small potatoes compared to Moscow and beyond.
This was really the heart of the SU production capability.

where the Soviets builded up the industry to create weapons for the eventual counter attack against Germans in 1942-1945.

Not that I don’t believe you,…
But could you give me any sources on the matter?

I think that the first starategig level error for the Germans was to attack Moscow in 1941.

It wasn’t really a strategic error to order the advance on Moscow.
The error laid more in the fact that Hitler ordered to reinforce the army groups north and south at the cost of Von Bock’s (Central)army.
At this point Hitler ordered the advance on Moscow to a halt.
When the order eventually came it was to late, the greatest SU ally (winter) was at the door.

About the WWI.The reason why the Russia didnt join in the final attack against Germany was,that the Russian Armies was already utterly beaten by the Germans. And infact Russia was in the middle of civil war at that point.

I could be wrong about this,…
But didn’t the comies just took control of the SU?
And wasn’t this the reason they signed a peace treaty with Germany?


Anyway I don’t think that any scenario would’ve given the Germans victory over the SU.
It’s the same problem the Japanese had with China.
Just to f… big.
If they had crushed Leningrad and Moscow and the more southern industry, they still couldn’t get a total victory over the SU.
It would be the same scenario as they had with Britain.
Weakend? Yes. Destroyed? Forget it!

[Kraxis]

Lenin and his buddies did take over the Provisional Government, but they basically only held sway in Leningrad initially. They needed time to consolidate their position, even if a civil war had never happened. Thus they made peace with Germany as at the time the Germans could basically have marched all the way to Vladivostok if need be since all the Russian soldiers were going home. A peace was needed.

Then came all the trouble of the civil war and the events just prior to that, so there was no chance that SU would have been able to rejoin the war ever.

[Upxl]

Thnx for the info.
This was a mayor gap in my inner history book.

Either way, the Germans never learned the lesson what raw Soviet power could do to a nation’s army.

[Watchman]

Want an "alternate history" scenario ? Whe the Finnish Civil War wound down in 1918 the Bolsheviks were still in a very precarious position in St. Petersburg (it took them quite a few years of Russian Civil War to take over the whole country) and the newly blooded Finnish "White" army was rather close by, due to having only recently chased the beaten Finnish "Reds" to the border. Marshal Mannerheim even opened negotiations with the Russian "White" generals on the topic of marching in and getting rid of the "Bolshevik rabble" (an aristocrat, conservative and a former senior officer of the Imperial Russian Army, Mannerheim was no friend of the revolutionaries). The latter, however, for some unfathomable reason were unwilling to unconditionally recognize the already de facto independence of Finland - something Lenin and the Boys, running on total crisis management mode, had been about the first in the world to do.

So Mannerheim called the whole thing off, and Finnish participation in the Russian Civil War was limited to some over-enthusiastic volunteers trying to 'liberate' the Finnish-speaking populaces of a few border areas in the so-called "Tribal Wars". The Red Army duly chased them off right quick once they could spare the troops from dealing with the Whites.

The "what if" scenario should be obvious...