The Other Gitmo: Where's the Outrage?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Like Hell you did.

Is that so. Let me tell you a few things that happened to me in bootcamp and others. How about once a DI though I was talikng to another recuit. He jumped up on a table and told me to stand at attention in front of him. He them proceeded to take his M-14 and give a horizontal butt stroke. It threw me clear across the room and into a wall. A typical punishment for us all was to go outside in 90 degree weather with two mop buckets. We would fill these with sand and then be forced to hold them out at arms length for long periods of time. How about doing 1000 jumping jacks at a time is that torture? Another time they took the whole platoon into the showers. Aroom about 20 by 20 with 80 men in it. They closed all the windows , turned on the hot watr on all the shower heads and proceeded to make us all do squat thrusts. People were getting kicked in the face and bleeding. Meanwhile the DIs were throwing buckets of ammonia into the shower. Or how about the guy who forgot to put a stop on his bolt when we were all in a circle sighting in our weapons. They took this poor slob and had him stick his index fingers in the breaches of two M-14s and then made him do jumping jacks untill they fell of his fingers . As to not being allowed to go to the bathroom .It took me two weeks and a visit to the hospital before I took my first dump in bootcamp. I wasnt the only one. You never had the time. I remenr one guy asking during indoor PT for permission to go to the head. It was denied and the guy had to puke. He did so and the DIs were all over him. They said what the hell do you think youve got a T shirt for. Next time puke down your shirt and dont mess up the squad bay .In fact everyday there was torture for me. I cold go on but I hevent got the time or inclination to continue. So was I tortured or not?

[LeftEyeNine]

...Turkish national and German resident Murat Kurnaz has alleged that when he was held in the US air base in Kandahar, interrogators repeatedly forced his head into a bucket of cold water for long periods of time, as well as subjecting him to an electric shock on his feet. He has alleged that he was held for days shackled and handcuffed with his arms secured above his head. On one occasion, he claims that a military officer loaded his gun and pointed it at Murat Kurnaz’s head, screaming at him to admit to being an al-Qa’ida associate. Murat Kurnaz also claims to have witnessed other detainee beatings, in one case that he believes may have resulted in the detainee’s death. In Guantánamo, he alleges, he has been subjected to sexual humiliation and taunting by young women who entered the interrogation room where he was shackled to the floor. When of them began to caress him from behind, he jerked his head back, hitting her head. He alleges that a response team of guards in riot gear entered the room beat him and sprayed him with pepper spray, and he was taken to isolation where he was left on the floor with his hands tied behind his back for 20 hours...

We have to agree that torture is not unique to a religion, system, nation or whatever.. Look at that, I'm disgusted...

P.S. Guantanamo Nights Express would sound good for a movie title..

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Again allegation only without proof. Nevermind that the AQ handbook tells them all to say they were tortured Now you would give them more ammunition to use against us.

[Watchman]

Yeah, so ? They're not the ones responsible for creating an atmosphere where there is very real reason to take such allegation seriously - that's all Made In USA, thank you very much.

[ichi]

There is no doubt that some prisoners have been abused. But when proof of this is shown those responsible are punished.

More accurately, scapegoats are made of those lowest level soldiers responsible for getting caught, while those who developed the system are promoted and rewarded. The highest up in this administration are experts at avoiding accountability.

ichi

[Goofball]

Again allegation only without proof. Nevermind that the AQ handbook tells them all to say they were tortured Now you would give them more ammunition to use against us.

Erm...

Aren't most of the Gitmo detainees being held on "allegation only without proof?"

You don't seem to be such a stickler about proof when it comes to them, now, do you?

[Papewaio]

So innocent until proven guilty according to the law is something that should be discarded when it is deemed expedient to do so? Free, open and public trials, the use of juries and access to legal representation are mere frippery? Oh dear.

For US citizens no. For enemy combatants yes.

Interesting concept of Justice. Reverse the situation... would you like it if US citizens got treated like the people in Gitmo.

Do you think it would be okay if a relative had no access to public trial, juries. That they were considered guilty first and had to prove their innocence?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Interesting concept of Justice. Reverse the situation... would you like it if US citizens got treated like the people in Gitmo.

Do you think it would be okay if a relative had no access to public trial, juries. That they were considered guilty first and had to prove their innocence?

Again their being held according to the rules of the Geneva convention. Why dont you all join the international red cross and push for equal rights for everyone then no matter how horrible they are? Again these rules are made to discourage people from fighting in such a manner. Your position makes the Geneva Convention a mockery. If they know we have certain rules they can use against us rest assured they will. You all act like we just went around picking up people at random and sending them off to Gitmo. This is not the case. These are the worst of the worst. Many after being released have been found fighting us in other places and aprehended again. What good will all your sanctomnious posturing get you when the blow you up?

Out of curiosity, did you go in there by your own decision ?

Let me put it this way. The Marines were and usually are an all volunteer service. It was so when I joined in 68. Of course it was a nice safe time to join however.

[Papewaio]

You do realise that marine lawyers are not happy with the way things are being handled in Gitmo either...

[Watchman]

Well, that certainly amounts to gross bullying at the very least. Nice army you have there. Out of curiosity, did you go in there by your own decision ?