Look at this: http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...id=126&lang=en
How to hunt a panther
Re: How to hunt a panther
What a good site - I had a good look round - very interesting stuff there.
Some comments on the Panther statistics:
1) Despite all the comments re mechanical reliability in accounts of Kursk, not many of the breakdowns seemed to have caused the loss of the tank.
2) I didn't notice any tanks knocked out by aircraft - all those Il 2s about you thought they would have knocked out a few.
3) A lot had been knocked out by 85mm rounds, which were an AA gun. This Soviet version of the 88 is not that well known, so it was interesting that they were used in this way. You can see why the Soviets got it into the T34 ASAP.
4) The involvement of mines in a lot of the casulties was interesting - those Soviet defence belts must have been really tough.
5) Finally - you have to say tank 634 obviously must have had a bad day!!
Have a look at the tank articles - really interesting - especially the comparison of the JS 2 vs the Panther, Tiger and King Tiger. There is a great account of an ambush by a JS2 on 7 King Tigers where the Soviet tank knocks out 3 and the other 4 retreat off home.
"Some people say MTW is a matter of life or death - but you have to realise it is more important than that"
With apologies to Bill Shankly
My first balloon- for "On this day in History"
Re: How to hunt a panther
If you click on the red text you get a picture of said tank... Notice how many of them have numerous hits but that actually penetrated the armour.
Check out the picture of tank 441...
535 is also rather nice but more because you can see the result of said tank behind it.
The the third last, what can anybody say but "BAM!!!!"
312 is odd, it is said to have been blown up by the crew due to technical failure, but a visible 76.2mm penetration is on the turret side.
The reason there aren't many technical failures is because they never reached the frontlines but had to be left behind, so not many would have been captured.
There is a single tank knocked out by a plane... guess which, I have already mentioned it.
Last edited by Kraxis; 11-17-2005 at 15:50.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Re: How to hunt a panther
You know I read a similar "First contact with King Tiger" account.
Like this one it was put up as official (with various offiers chiming in at various points) and some official routing 'stamps'.
In that case it was a T34-85 that did the job. It even had a comment from the gunner something like, "enemy tanks advancing... looks like Tigers, but they are different." Commander responded "More killing, less asking for pedigree."
Given that we have two essentially clones of the same engagement with different forces, and both have a very official look about them I suddenly suddenly get a feeling of having been dragged around by the nose.
Given how I discovered that the battle of Prokhorovka was not only inflated hugely and was nowhere near a deathride of the Panzers (http://www.uni.edu/~licari/citadel.htm), I'm leaning towards a "no way!" stance on this.
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Re: How to hunt a panther
Very nice site! Thanks.
PB-PL Commander/CC2 Commander/MTW Commander
Re: How to hunt a panther
Well one was hit by a 100kg bomb (the one below 824). There is not enough left to identify its number
Re: How to hunt a panther
I always thought that the Il 2s did all their damage with cannon and rockets, so I thought we might see a few of those - perhaps there were too many other targets around!!Originally Posted by Franconicus
Well one was hit by a 100kg bomb (the one below 824). There is not enough left to identify its number
"Some people say MTW is a matter of life or death - but you have to realise it is more important than that"
With apologies to Bill Shankly
My first balloon
Re: How to hunt a panther
They also carried bombs, and 100kg sounds about right for them. Of course they didn't always carry bombs, but bombs were not too shabby at blasting tanks apart. The Stuka was a pretty good tankbuster even before it gots its nice guns, but of course the ammo was very limited.I always thought that the Il 2s did all their damage with cannon and rockets, so I thought we might see a few of those - perhaps there were too many other targets around!!
You may not care about war, but war cares about you!
Re: How to hunt a panther
Speaking of the Ilyushins, didn't they have cannon too ? I just started wondering that a lot (or rather, all) of the holes made by the 45mm guns seem to be on the upper parts of the hulks, in the turret or upper hull section, and often in the rear or sides... Did the IL-2 mount something that big, or was that just light tanks outflanking ?
Edit: Hmm, another part of the site mentions "45mm NS-45 and Sh-45 Aircraft Guns", but the text is only available in Russian...
Last edited by Watchman; 11-17-2005 at 18:51.
"Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."
-Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks