How to hunt a panther

[Kraxis]

If you found the Panthers to be oddly knocked out look at this.

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...id=117&lang=en

Essentially just mines and damage to the tracks. Tough nuts to crack with guns it seems.

[Watchman]

Well, those heavy tank destroyers were pretty much slabs of armour on tracks, with a gun projecting forwards. Although they're technically speaking assault guns and not tank destroyers, those crazy Sturmtigers are probably pretty much the reductio ad absurdum of the idea. I understand the Ferdinands initially suffered in the hands of Soviet infantry tank-hunters (Molotov coctails are mentioned with regularity in the list), and were soon fitted with MGs for close defense to rectify things (the resulting design apparently being known as Elephant).

Well, that one super-heavy tank the Brits got to a prototype stage - Tortoise or something like that - wasn't half bad in that regard either...

[Franconicus]

http://www.battlefield.ru/index.php?...id=114&lang=en

Just in case you go elephant hunting over the wekend

[Watchman]

"Tank Busting For Dummies" ?

[English assassin]

Well, that one super-heavy tank the Brits got to a prototype stage - Tortoise or something like that - wasn't half bad in that regard either...

The only one made is at bovington and its one big mofo: http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/a39/index.htm

British AFV designers at the time seem to have been vicitims of something like penis envy when it came to big tanks, since they also came up with the Conqueror as a IS3 killer http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/fv214/index.htm Quite a nice looking vehicle but you have to say the (medium weight) Centurion was a better tank all round.

[Kagemusha]

Well basicly in the end of the war. The Tank hunting came pretty much easier. Becouse of the Panzerfaust,panzershreck and Bazooka. But from the start to end the most reliable infantry weapon against the tanks was satchel charge. Finish infantry destroyed even KV-2 and JS heavy tanks with simple explosives.

[Watchman]

Big enough a blast and any tank becomes so much shredded tin foil. That's one thing the Bigger Hammer principle works well on.

Anyway, the heavy tanks (eg. the IS series and its Western equivalents) got phased out from national arsenals around the Korean War; too cost-inefficient, logistically problematic, slow, and simply not worth the hassle. The superheavies like the legendary Maus never worked right to begin with. Hence the MBT principle; a solid middleweight tank that strikes a good balance between speed, power and resiliency.

'Course, I think modern MBTs weigh in the range of the WW2 heavies, but that's beside the point.

[Kraxis]

The only one made is at bovington and its one big mofo: http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/a39/index.htm

British AFV designers at the time seem to have been vicitims of something like penis envy when it came to big tanks, since they also came up with the Conqueror as a IS3 killer http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/fv214/index.htm Quite a nice looking vehicle but you have to say the (medium weight) Centurion was a better tank all round.

Very nice... Very nice... That Conqueror has a very moderns look, and a very efficient look as well. The Centurion looks like an upgraded Churchill. I like the Conqueror, but it has what looks like an inherited look from the Pershing. Actually it looks far more like and American tank than a British.

The Tortoise is ugly, it hasn't got the sleek looks of the Jagdpanther, or the menacing appearance of the Jagdtiger or even the brutal efficiency of the SU-152 or 122. No wonder only a single was made.
It is with tanks as it is with planes, well designed tanks just look better (the Churchill does stand out however).

The trouble with the Ferdinand wasn't that it was a bad weapon at all, but how it was used. It was as unknown to the Germans as it was to the Russians (they actually fled at the sight of it first). By cahnce the Russians managed to seperate the Ferdinands from their infantry, and suddenly they were vulnerable to close assaults. The Germans on the other hand failed to grasp that the Ferdinands could never become anything but a support weapon (a superb support weapon perhaps) and thought that its gun would sweep the field before it. The initial encounters confirmed the Germans' idea but later... well, we know the result.

After Kursk the Elephant was used correctly and the remaining few served for a rather long time, giving valuable support against tanks. It found it's niche and performed outstandingly. But other weapons were simply better suited, such weapons as the Nashorn, perfect for the Russian plains.

Btw, the daily little interesting tidbit from WWII:
In Italy the Germans were pulling back, but a rearguard was posted in a small village, it consisted of a single 88 in its AA variant and a handful of close defence infantry. A few platoons of infantry would have cleared the village in half an hour or less. But unfortunately for the Allies the leading tanks had outstripped their infantry and were now alone.
The commander saw the village for what it was, an ambush, but he couldn't go around it, he had to follow the road more or less. So he did what any sensile commander would do, he sent a single tank ahead to scout. Bam and it was knocked out... He sent another tank and the result was the same. This went on for a good while until finally a single tank rolled into the little square where it found the crew of the 88 surrendering.
Understandingly the tankcrew was surprised at this, after all the gun was pointing right at the tank, it could have taken it out easily. So the tankcommander asked the guncommander why he had surrendered and the man gave a very interesting answer:
"I ran out of shells, you didn't run out of tanks."

[Franconicus]

I always thought any allied tank commander would have solved the problem by calling the air force.

So what is the right use for the Ferdinand:

1. Use them in defense only;
2. Use them behind a strong infantry line.
3. Dig them 30 cm so the wheels are protected.
4. Secure the flanks with some tanks.
5. Add some 2cm twin flak - they can keep Il2 away and hold the infantry down.
6. Plave some mechanics right behind.
   Maybe also some Panzergrenadiere as reserve.

Then let the Soviets attack frontal.

Did you know that the Germans modified Panzer III vehicles and used them as ammo carriers for the Ferdinands.