How to hunt a panther

[Kraxis]

The only one made is at bovington and its one big mofo: http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/a39/index.htm

British AFV designers at the time seem to have been vicitims of something like penis envy when it came to big tanks, since they also came up with the Conqueror as a IS3 killer http://www.armourinfocus.co.uk/fv214/index.htm Quite a nice looking vehicle but you have to say the (medium weight) Centurion was a better tank all round.

Very nice... Very nice... That Conqueror has a very moderns look, and a very efficient look as well. The Centurion looks like an upgraded Churchill. I like the Conqueror, but it has what looks like an inherited look from the Pershing. Actually it looks far more like and American tank than a British.

The Tortoise is ugly, it hasn't got the sleek looks of the Jagdpanther, or the menacing appearance of the Jagdtiger or even the brutal efficiency of the SU-152 or 122. No wonder only a single was made.
It is with tanks as it is with planes, well designed tanks just look better (the Churchill does stand out however).

The trouble with the Ferdinand wasn't that it was a bad weapon at all, but how it was used. It was as unknown to the Germans as it was to the Russians (they actually fled at the sight of it first). By cahnce the Russians managed to seperate the Ferdinands from their infantry, and suddenly they were vulnerable to close assaults. The Germans on the other hand failed to grasp that the Ferdinands could never become anything but a support weapon (a superb support weapon perhaps) and thought that its gun would sweep the field before it. The initial encounters confirmed the Germans' idea but later... well, we know the result.

After Kursk the Elephant was used correctly and the remaining few served for a rather long time, giving valuable support against tanks. It found it's niche and performed outstandingly. But other weapons were simply better suited, such weapons as the Nashorn, perfect for the Russian plains.

Btw, the daily little interesting tidbit from WWII:
In Italy the Germans were pulling back, but a rearguard was posted in a small village, it consisted of a single 88 in its AA variant and a handful of close defence infantry. A few platoons of infantry would have cleared the village in half an hour or less. But unfortunately for the Allies the leading tanks had outstripped their infantry and were now alone.
The commander saw the village for what it was, an ambush, but he couldn't go around it, he had to follow the road more or less. So he did what any sensile commander would do, he sent a single tank ahead to scout. Bam and it was knocked out... He sent another tank and the result was the same. This went on for a good while until finally a single tank rolled into the little square where it found the crew of the 88 surrendering.
Understandingly the tankcrew was surprised at this, after all the gun was pointing right at the tank, it could have taken it out easily. So the tankcommander asked the guncommander why he had surrendered and the man gave a very interesting answer:
"I ran out of shells, you didn't run out of tanks."

[Franconicus]

I always thought any allied tank commander would have solved the problem by calling the air force.

So what is the right use for the Ferdinand:

1. Use them in defense only;
2. Use them behind a strong infantry line.
3. Dig them 30 cm so the wheels are protected.
4. Secure the flanks with some tanks.
5. Add some 2cm twin flak - they can keep Il2 away and hold the infantry down.
6. Plave some mechanics right behind.
   Maybe also some Panzergrenadiere as reserve.

Then let the Soviets attack frontal.

Did you know that the Germans modified Panzer III vehicles and used them as ammo carriers for the Ferdinands.

[Watchman]

They made somehting of an art form out of converting captured and/or just plain obsolete vehicles for assorted support roles in general. Stripping old tanks of their turrets and converting them to light assault guns was a pretty popular one.

[Kraxis]

I always thought any allied tank commander would have solved the problem by calling the air force.

So what is the right use for the Ferdinand:

1. Use them in defense only;
2. Use them behind a strong infantry line.
3. Dig them 30 cm so the wheels are protected.
4. Secure the flanks with some tanks.
5. Add some 2cm twin flak - they can keep Il2 away and hold the infantry down.
6. Plave some mechanics right behind.
   Maybe also some Panzergrenadiere as reserve.

Then let the Soviets attack frontal.

Well in Italy they didn't have such an overpowering aircover at first, so the commander possibly didn't have the option. But he was one cynical person.
Whenever I think of that incident I can't help but also think of Starship Troopers where the bugs attack the outpost and use their bodies to create a ramp to the walls. Those cases are quite similar. "Hah! I will let him expend all his ammo on killing my tanks, then it will be easy."

But the Ferdinand/Elephant was useable as a normal, if somewhat heavy TD. It didn't need more support than most other assault guns or TDs in the German army. What could do that the others could not, was take on any Russian tank attack and live through it. So if it was around, then the line was secure

[Franconicus]

Reminds me of how the Russians cleared the minefields

[Kraxis]

Yeah it is similar to the British getting the subs to deplete their torpedoes on battleships, cruisers and other warships to get the merchants to get through.
Silly...

But the Russian minefield clearing was done normally, but once in a while they had a penal battalion nearby, so why not use it.
This could of course not be used on minefields that were covered by machineguns, which most were.

I heard a story from a Pole once, that the Russians kept attackign a village in Poland with penal troops, unarmed of course. The Germans of course killed them, but in the process melted the barrels of their MG42s so they were useless. I have to add that given the rapid exchange of barrels for the MG42 I find it increadible that they could destroy some three barrels or more for each machinegun.
After this the regular attacked and 'easily' took the village.

[Husar]

Go here and have a look at Landkreuzer P 1000 "Ratte".
It´s all german, but if you can´t read it, you may get the idea from the 2D plan.