best army

[BDC]

From what I have gathered talking to British soldiers, in joint excercises with the US the UK soldiers normally win.

Then get told off for cheating. Along the lines of "You're not allowed to hide until we have all driven past then claim you have taken the area".

[DemonArchangel]

Americans make REAL shitty anti-insurgent forces.

If you need troops that can pull off the perfect tank blitz, crush loads of conventional forces in the shortest period of time, level entire cities etc. you have to call in the Americans.

If you want anti-insurgent work, call in the British.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It would be remarkably interesting and a wholly unique experience to see the Her Majesty's 42nd Regiment of Foot, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) against an equal number of US Marines and see if the Black Watch don't lose...

That it would. But since you picked your army unit can I pick my Marine unit to oppose them? Would you like to put them up against force recon just man to man to no arty or tanks. Just the infantry?

[Duke Malcolm]

I would put them up against an equal number of infantry marines. Of any unit.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

strip them of their helocoptors and tanks and be man for man the british just have superior training and dicipline... but army to army the americans would win

my dad that used to be in the navy said that some american air-craft carriers have so little dicipline that there are rival gangs and gang wars on board ship.. (this is probably an exageration though)
also my step-dad was a tank commander and says that everytime the brits took on the americans in a 'war-game' the brits won lol

GMM

[mercian billman]

I would put them up against an equal number of infantry marines. Of any unit.

The USMC has 24 infantry battalions I'm pretty sure that a few of them are capable of defeating The Black Watch.

Also something else you don't realize is that all 24 of the battalions are different from each other. When you consider each battalion has different SOPs, personnel makeup, and different leadership, there are some battalions that are better than others. For instance one battalion may be made up of brand new PVTs and PFCs while another may have a larger proportion of LCPLs who've all served one or two tours in Iraq or Afghanistan. The second battalion is obviously going to perform better, but within two years that battalion will be made up of mostly PVTs/PFCs, and the first will contain the larger proportion of LCPLs.

In the end it would come down to which battalion has more experienced and battle hardened personnel at the squad and platoon level.

[Templar Knight]

Dont forget weaponry, the M16 owns the SA80

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

That was true, but as I understand it the new version of the SA80 is a perfectly fine weapon.

[Templar Knight]

That was true, but as I understand it the new version of the SA80 is a perfectly fine weapon

Most of the problems have been solved, apart from the safety catch issue

[Somebody Else]

Dont forget weaponry, the M16 owns the SA80

I'll assume that's in jest.

SA80A2 (which I'll get to play with next year) is remarkably good - doesn't jam, and is really rather accurate (they had to reformat the standard marksmanship tests, cos everyone was doing too well with it. That, and every SA80 in the British army has SUSAT as standard - barring those belonging to tankers etc.). Being shorter than the M16, it's more manoeuverable. Having a bayonet fixture also helps - something the latest M16 model doesn't have - they are still used... to rather good effect, most recently in Iraq - 5 to 1 odds, only 3 injuries...

Only problem is if you're a lefty.

[Duke Malcolm]

Are you in the Army, Somebody Else?

[Ja'chyra]

I'll assume that's in jest.

SA80A2 (which I'll get to play with next year) is remarkably good - doesn't jam, and is really rather accurate (they had to reformat the standard marksmanship tests, cos everyone was doing too well with it. That, and every SA80 in the British army has SUSAT as standard - barring those belonging to tankers etc.). Being shorter than the M16, it's more manoeuverable. Having a bayonet fixture also helps - something the latest M16 model doesn't have - they are still used... to rather good effect, most recently in Iraq - 5 to 1 odds, only 3 injuries...

Only problem is if you're a lefty.

Not quite true, not every weapon has a SUSAT but that is the aspiration.

Also, in reliability the SA80 A2 outperforms the M16A2 by quite a margin.

[Duke Malcolm]

The USMC has 24 infantry battalions I'm pretty sure that a few of them are capable of defeating The Black Watch.

Also something else you don't realize is that all 24 of the battalions are different from each other. When you consider each battalion has different SOPs, personnel makeup, and different leadership, there are some battalions that are better than others. For instance one battalion may be made up of brand new PVTs and PFCs while another may have a larger proportion of LCPLs who've all served one or two tours in Iraq or Afghanistan. The second battalion is obviously going to perform better, but within two years that battalion will be made up of mostly PVTs/PFCs, and the first will contain the larger proportion of LCPLs.

In the end it would come down to which battalion has more experienced and battle hardened personnel at the squad and platoon level.

Yes, a few of them together perhaps, but certainly not an equal number. The Regiments of the British Army are all different also. I have no idea what your abbreviations are, but the army regiments here have different backgrounds, traditions, honours, leadership, experience, nationality.

The men of the Black Watch have probably been fighting properly since they were about 10, when they go off into their respective groups and fight each other in substantial fights between the little areas of the city. The soldiers are not only battle-hardened, but have other experience.

[mercian billman]

Yes, a few of them together perhaps, but certainly not an equal number. The Regiments of the British Army are all different also. I have no idea what your abbreviations are, but the army regiments here have different backgrounds, traditions, honours, leadership, experience, nationality.

The men of the Black Watch have probably been fighting properly since they were about 10, when they go off into their respective groups and fight each other in substantial fights between the little areas of the city. The soldiers are not only battle-hardened, but have other experience.

Once again it all comes down to the quality of the Marine battalion. It's like comparing football teams, they use the same equipment, receive the same training, and have similar facilities. In the end it all comes down to personnel and leadership, keeping that in mind there are Marine Infantry battalions capable of defeating the Black Watch in equal number.

I'm not sure about fist fights between children, but the fist fights you got into when you were a kid don't mean much when your facing another man with a rifle. I might as well claim Marines are superior because we have martial arts training and we practice with bayonets in bootcamp.

I'm not trying to claim that Marines are superior to the Black Watch, because it's stupid. It's like arguing over SEALs vs SAS vs Spetznaz vs whatever Special Ops unit is better than the other. There really is no right answer because you don't know what would happen, until it actually happens.

[Duke Malcolm]

...keeping that in mind there are Marine Infantry battalions capable of defeating the Black Watch in equal number.

I doubt it

I'm not sure about fist fights between children, but the fist fights you got into when you were a kid don't mean much when your facing another man with a rifle. I might as well claim Marines are superior because we have martial arts training and we practice with bayonets in bootcamp.

Who said anything about fist fights? These are generally knife (pocket, swiss, kitchen, switch, et al.), pole-arm (pipes, cricket bats, and other long and hard things), bottles or ranged weapon (sticks, stones, pellet guns, air rifles, bottles) fights.

[bmolsson]

That it would. But since you picked your army unit can I pick my Marine unit to oppose them? Would you like to put them up against force recon just man to man to no arty or tanks. Just the infantry?

Doesn't that sound a bit silly. My dad is bigger than your dad ....

Each unit have a specific task and they can never be compared direct.

I would argue that there are today no real occupation force on earth, hence the problem for any attacker to actually keep a war won.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I'll put Gawains Marines against the entire Norwegan army...wait...Norway doesn't have much of an army. Damnit.

[Ironside]

I'll put Gawains Marines against the entire Norwegan army...wait...Norway doesn't have much of an army. Damnit.

Lol, I'm assume that you're aware that Norway have a draft?

Although after the fall of SU the budget have decreased, I would guess that Norway could easily get 200.000 men on foot in less then a week if needed, and probably about a million within a few years (that's about 2/9 of the population, that would mean that the US would pull up 65-66 million men).

On average worse training than the US marines, NATO-standard equipment and homefront.

How big is the marines?
This could end up as a very interesting fight.

[Somebody Else]

I was talking to a Royal Marine officer the other day; got round to the US Marines. He said their officers were highly intelligent, competent at what they do etc. but the soldiers themselves were really irritating to work with - as they haven't the faintest idea to think for themselves. He said the USMC was excellent at large-scale operations, blitzing in and breaking everything in sight, but for anything requiring finesse... eh, no.

Side note. Royal Marine Commando = a unit of absolute hard-cases, and they're not even the toughest we have...

[InsaneApache]

Side note. Royal Marine Commando = a unit of absolute hard-cases, and they're not even the toughest we have...

That is so true, they're are like common soldiery...in the RM...all Marines are trained as 'Commando'....the only unit in the British Army to maintain a commando unit in peacetime.

The difference between the UK forces and USA forces always boiled down to brittle morale. When it really comes down to it the USA just can't cut the mustard. Sorry my yank freinds but when it is the real deal...we just handle it better.

The truth will out