best army

[Templar Knight]

some thoughts:

A FIREARMS expert has described as "pathetic" attempts to blame British troops for problems with the Army’s controversial SA80-A2 rifle.

"The SA80 has been beset with problems since its introduction and it’s clear even with the modifications that it is a less than perfect weapon," he said. "The fact that our special forces don’t use it says everything." Mr Yardley accepted that the SA80-A2 was extremely accurate but questioned its design, weight and balance which affected its handling ability.

Terry J Gander, editor of Jane’s Infantry Weapons, wrote on the group’s website that the "old problems" persist.

"It would appear that the only certain way to rectify the ... unreliability situation is to start again," he said.

[mercian billman]

Yes, a few of them together perhaps, but certainly not an equal number. The Regiments of the British Army are all different also. I have no idea what your abbreviations are, but the army regiments here have different backgrounds, traditions, honours, leadership, experience, nationality.

The men of the Black Watch have probably been fighting properly since they were about 10, when they go off into their respective groups and fight each other in substantial fights between the little areas of the city. The soldiers are not only battle-hardened, but have other experience.

Once again it all comes down to the quality of the Marine battalion. It's like comparing football teams, they use the same equipment, receive the same training, and have similar facilities. In the end it all comes down to personnel and leadership, keeping that in mind there are Marine Infantry battalions capable of defeating the Black Watch in equal number.

I'm not sure about fist fights between children, but the fist fights you got into when you were a kid don't mean much when your facing another man with a rifle. I might as well claim Marines are superior because we have martial arts training and we practice with bayonets in bootcamp.

I'm not trying to claim that Marines are superior to the Black Watch, because it's stupid. It's like arguing over SEALs vs SAS vs Spetznaz vs whatever Special Ops unit is better than the other. There really is no right answer because you don't know what would happen, until it actually happens.

[Somebody Else]

Are you in the Army, Somebody Else?

Nope. Just a glorified cadet.

Thinking of joining though, but haven't quite worked out what regiment. I'm thinking something interesting - Ghurkas maybe. Possibly a Guards regiment. Perhaps the Light Infantry. Now that I've seen them up close, the Royal Marines might be worth a look - but for their insane fitness etc. That green beret would be very cool though - perhaps army commandos, after all, the marines are part of the navy...

[Marcellus]

"The fact that our special forces don’t use it says everything."

I believe the only reason special forces don't use it is because it is too heavy for their particular requirements. For the average soldier it is fine (although I imagine a little on the heavier side of things).

[Proletariat]

Yeah, but Japan's sumo wrestlers would beat your countries sumo wrestlers. Obviously they have a superior army.

[Papewaio]

Well if you are going to use Sumo wrestlers then the US wins again... as one of the best in recent times was a Hawaiian.

[Franconicus]

USA all the way NC baby We could destroy everyone espesically the marines. Other than the israelis are badass mothas

I guess that is the reason why the rest of the world relies trustfully on the American leadership!

[Franconicus]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.

wise words!

The question was: What is the best, not the biggest or most destructive?

So to me it is clear that the best army is the army that fulfills its job with minimum of resources spend.

So lets see:
The US? Rediculous overscaled. And hardly able to fulfill their job. Still struggling hard in Iraq and still could not catsch B.L.
China: Far to big. At least they fulfill their job: Defending the country and scaring Taiwan.

I really think that Tachikaze is right. Some smaller armies like Switzerland are doing a very good job.

The less you hear about an army in the new the better it is.

[miho]

The less you hear about an army in the new the better it is.

I agree on that one.
The Chinese will probably be the strongest in a while. They have the numbers and soon they'll have the technology.

[Ja'chyra]

I'll assume that's in jest.

SA80A2 (which I'll get to play with next year) is remarkably good - doesn't jam, and is really rather accurate (they had to reformat the standard marksmanship tests, cos everyone was doing too well with it. That, and every SA80 in the British army has SUSAT as standard - barring those belonging to tankers etc.). Being shorter than the M16, it's more manoeuverable. Having a bayonet fixture also helps - something the latest M16 model doesn't have - they are still used... to rather good effect, most recently in Iraq - 5 to 1 odds, only 3 injuries...

Only problem is if you're a lefty.

Not quite true, not every weapon has a SUSAT but that is the aspiration.

Also, in reliability the SA80 A2 outperforms the M16A2 by quite a margin.

[Ja'chyra]

Rubbish. It's simply the way the American System works that does not allow the Army do what it does best. You won't see the real potential of the US army unless you look at a real war. As someone above said, Occupation just ain't our forte. You want an example of our being superior? Read up on the first Gulf War. Saddam's army was not exactly considered sub-par until we laid the hurt on 'em.

Yeah, yeah, sure.. that was a coalition. But the air power that opened it, and the tanks that finished it, were american.

Oh right, so we didn't have any planes or tanks there then?

Stop being so arrogant.

No-one can deny that the US Army is by the richest and probably the most powerful but that doesn't mean they are the best at all they do.

[Lazul]

Isn't there an elite merc force of 10,000 troops in Forgotten Realms that would beat most other armies in that world.

hmm... nha I stand by my statement that the combined forces of Thay could crush any other faction on Toril. But only if the Red Wizards would stop fighting each other instead of the enemy.
Just remember that Thay has both Aznar Thrull and Szass Tam, hard to beat!

Am I a fantasy nerd... a true geek!?... yes... YES I AM!

*swosh* back to our world.

Would be intresting to see the US trying to occupy whole of Scandinavia, has to be really god damn anoying landscape to control.

[Franconicus]

Rubbish. It's simply the way the American System works that does not allow the Army do what it does best. You won't see the real potential of the US army unless you look at a real war. As someone above said, Occupation just ain't our forte. You want an example of our being superior? Read up on the first Gulf War. Saddam's army was not exactly considered sub-par until we laid the hurt on 'em.

Yeah, yeah, sure.. that was a coalition. But the air power that opened it, and the tanks that finished it, were american.

If the US army is built for a real war - then they are overscaled. Who is the enemy that scares you so much that you spend all your money on guns. - I think the Americans and their army have so many guns because the Americans love guns. And they feel a lot more safe if they have most of them
If the purpose of the army is to control conquered - or freed - countries well then it has some problems. Right? But maybe politicians are not good because they give the army a job it cannot fulfil.

Regarding the 1st Gulf war: Excellent job. But did you see the German invasion of France in 1940?

[Redleg]

If the US army is built for a real war - then they are overscaled. Who is the enemy that scares you so much that you spend all your money on guns. - I think the Americans and their army have so many guns because the Americans love guns. And they feel a lot more safe if they have most of them
If the purpose of the army is to control conquered - or freed - countries well then it has some problems. Right? But maybe politicians are not good because they give the army a job it cannot fulfil.

Regarding the 1st Gulf war: Excellent job. But did you see the German invasion of France in 1940?

So your just jealous is that it?

[Duke Malcolm]

...keeping that in mind there are Marine Infantry battalions capable of defeating the Black Watch in equal number.

I doubt it

I'm not sure about fist fights between children, but the fist fights you got into when you were a kid don't mean much when your facing another man with a rifle. I might as well claim Marines are superior because we have martial arts training and we practice with bayonets in bootcamp.

Who said anything about fist fights? These are generally knife (pocket, swiss, kitchen, switch, et al.), pole-arm (pipes, cricket bats, and other long and hard things), bottles or ranged weapon (sticks, stones, pellet guns, air rifles, bottles) fights.

[Franconicus]

Of course I am! I'd like to pay more taxis to see Germans fighting all over the world. Just like my grandfathers did!
Joke aside, Germans demonstrated military skills in the last century. I think it was enough to convince everybody that we are the greatest military bullheads in the world for at least another century.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Joke aside, Germans demonstrated military skills in the last century. I think it was enough to convince everybody that we are the greatest military bullheads in the world for at least another century

How by losing both wars? Its the US that has been the greatest military power for the last century not Germany. Our Military has never lost a war on the battlefield. Heck we helped beat you twice already. You would stand almost helpess before us today in a one on one fight.

I doubt it

Well that settles it. You seem to think all Marine battalions are the same and that none are elite. The Black Watch is certainly trained better than the average marine unit but not too all of them.

[DemonArchangel]

Not quite true, not every weapon has a SUSAT but that is the aspiration.

Also, in reliability the SA80 A2 outperforms the M16A2 by quite a margin.

Yes but there's one huge problem.

See here: http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html

You have to disassemble the entire gun in order to get ejection in different directions.

I know that disassembly in China's Type 95 assault rifles is fairly rapid as shown here (probably because they anticipated the reversal issue): [(No image, stupid copyrights)

However, I don't know how rapidly the SA-80A2 can be diassembled for use. I know it probably has more parts and more moving parts than the Type 95, so it would probably take longer, making it an impossibility in combat conditions.

[Somebody Else]

As I said before, the SA80 is only really problematic if you're a lefty. The way to deal with this in the British army is to... train everyone to shoot right-handed.

Though, I had a guy telling me about how his A1, when he was at his previous post, had had it's cocking handle filed down, and on a piece of string, so that he could pull it out and fire left-handed. Presumably the ejecting cases didn't worry him too much. Of course, he'd have been screwed had his rifle jammed on him - a nice hefty fine or something for damaging his rifle.

[DemonArchangel]

The string's kind of like taping magazines together. It's a stopgap measure. And it's kind of difficult to aim with casings smacking you in the face.

[Somebody Else]

As I said, the SOP is to fire right-handed. He clearly decided a few errant casings were worth firing with his familiar hand.

[Papewaio]

However, I don't know how rapidly the SA-80A2 can be diassembled for use. I know it probably has more parts and more moving parts than the Type 95, so it would probably take longer, making it an impossibility in combat conditions.

How many people have spontanesouly come to the conclusion in the middle of combat that they are in fact not right handed but instead left handed?

[Adrian II]

How many people have spontanesouly come to the conclusion in the middle of combat that they are in fact not right handed but instead left handed?

At least one: Horatio Nelson.

[mercian billman]

I doubt it

Obviously your mind was made up before the discussion began.

I checked the Black Watch's website and discovered that it's actually an Armoured Infantry Battalion. Marine Infantry battalions simply do not have the same armor the Black Watch has, unless they've been augmented and even then they wouldn't have the numbers or the power of the Black Watch. Which really makes any comparison unfair, because the Black Watch is not really a infantry battalion.

Who said anything about fist fights? These are generally knife (pocket, swiss, kitchen, switch, et al.), pole-arm (pipes, cricket bats, and other long and hard things), bottles or ranged weapon (sticks, stones, pellet guns, air rifles, bottles) fights.

Once again it really doesn't matter. I know plenty of Marines who have gotten into the fights you described and pretty much every infantryman has gotten into a fight of some sort. Barfights, streetfights etc. really don't mean a whole lot and doesn't make someone a better infantryman.

[Somebody Else]

I'll match and raise your USMC with our Royal Marines.

[Tribesman]

As someone above said, Occupation just ain't our forte.
No point winning the battle if you cannot hold on to the battlefield

I'll match and raise your USMC with our Royal Marines.
Neither is a match for the Irish Rangers , during their last operation they cleared the whole Cooley Peninsula in 3 days without a single casualty , not a single mountian goat escaped their expert snipers during the foot and mouth cull

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I'll match and raise your USMC with our Royal Marines.

Your just a we bit outnumbered and your totally lacking in aircraft . It would be a slaughter and you guys would be the ones on the recieving end. Again generally speaking Royal Marines are more specialised and better trained than your average US Marine. But their aint that many of them.

[Strike For The South]

with our Royal Marines.
Neither is a match for the Irish Rangers , during their last operation they cleared the whole Cooley Peninsula in 3 days without a single casualty , not a single mountian goat escaped their expert snipers during the foot and mouth cull

only becuase they were promised beer

[bmolsson]

How by losing both wars? Its the US that has been the greatest military power for the last century not Germany. Our Military has never lost a war on the battlefield. Heck we helped beat you twice already. You would stand almost helpess before us today in a one on one fight.

Just to refresh you on history. When the Europeans invaded the Americas, you got beaten badly, actually you never succeeded to retake any of your soil and today your culture is European. So don't come with any bullshit on how superior Americans are......

[Franconicus]

Joke aside, Germans demonstrated military skills in the last century. I think it was enough to convince everybody that we are the greatest military bullheads in the world for at least another century

How by losing both wars? Its the US that has been the greatest military power for the last century not Germany. Our Military has never lost a war on the battlefield. Heck we helped beat you twice already. You would stand almost helpess before us today in a one on one fight.

Of course we lost both wars. We did not want to dominate other countries, just a fair military competition. When we finally saw that most of our opponents were knocked we stopped the fight.
By the way, the US always waited until the worst fighting was done.

Your military has never lost on the batlle field. I do not want to disturb your national myths. - I know that you are a chess player. So you certainly know those club players who are unbeatable. If they loose, then it is because of bad light, a puff, smoke in the air ....

Fighting the US military is not on our agenda. This is not an olympic discipline. So why should we prepare to fight the US? Sounds foolish to me. I have no ambitions to have a bigger and more expensive army than the US. This award goes to you