Org Mobile Site
Thread: The Cowards Strike Agian
Originally Posted by KafirChobee:
They are slipping in the war for "Hearts and Minds" - but, the west simply has no policy to fill the gap this is creating (aside from sending them "The Simpsons" - without the pork). Pity really, this is a major opportunity for us; and those that would know how to use it .... are not included in the process to determine a plan for mending our fences and using their violence against them. Pity.
How precisely would you expliot this 'opportunity'? I'd be interested in hearing your plan.They are slipping in the war for "Hearts and Minds" - but, the west simply has no policy to fill the gap this is creating (aside from sending them "The Simpsons" - without the pork). Pity really, this is a major opportunity for us; and those that would know how to use it .... are not included in the process to determine a plan for mending our fences and using their violence against them. Pity.
I personally am no longer an expert on the MiddleEast (been out of touch a decade, but I do still know a bit about how the people there gain their perseptions), but there are those that would understand the sentiment there and be able to come up with a plan or recourse (aside from some lame propagandistic phraseology directed at western thinking minds) that would layout to the people why it is not such a terrible thing for the US to be occupying their lands. Instead of the "we may have to destroy them, before we can save them" policy of today.
On several occassions listening to men (and women) in the know, on such media outlets as The News Hour (with jim Lehrer), experts have touted our failure to comprehend the mindset of our enemy, and why the people of Iraq do not trust our spin on the events of the day (it might be that they are actually witnesses to the events and see the reality versus the propaganda released by our military and political leaders to its public - US). Further, if we do not have people in positions to challenge the enemys "ways and means", and justifications for their "cause" - other than call them "evil doers", we lose. The present plan of the people in possition to do something (to relay the facts of the matter (s) to the public in Iraq) is first to alienate the sources these people use to "hear the news", instead of sharing our perspectives with them (of course they don't do this with our own media so ... what does one expect?).
It is a matter that we have the resources (people that do understand this region) to "turn this corner", but are afraid to use them because they may not agree with the administrations mind set that Iraq is just like New Jersey, just with more knocked down buildings. To win the hearts and minds, like minded individuals of that populace must be employed to win them. That is all I was saying.
Instead, we have a President that proclaimed a "War on Terrorism" as our modern Crusade to fight evil doers. We leaped in to a situation without first looking at what we were jumping into - Rummy and Wolfowitz actually believed this would be some kind of liberation of Paris scenario (some old men have a hard time adjusting to the reality of the times, let alone comprehending a foreign landscape or the mores, values, and religion of a region - they tend to think in "Christian" terms and all else is evil.). Now, we must simply readjust to the reality of Iraq and its peoples - and quit with the rhetorical discourse that may sell for some in the West, but not be comprehended by others outside that limited parameter of that type thinking.
Get it?
On several occassions listening to men (and women) in the know, on such media outlets as The News Hour (with jim Lehrer), experts have touted our failure to comprehend the mindset of our enemy, and why the people of Iraq do not trust our spin on the events of the day (it might be that they are actually witnesses to the events and see the reality versus the propaganda released by our military and political leaders to its public - US). Further, if we do not have people in positions to challenge the enemys "ways and means", and justifications for their "cause" - other than call them "evil doers", we lose. The present plan of the people in possition to do something (to relay the facts of the matter (s) to the public in Iraq) is first to alienate the sources these people use to "hear the news", instead of sharing our perspectives with them (of course they don't do this with our own media so ... what does one expect?).
It is a matter that we have the resources (people that do understand this region) to "turn this corner", but are afraid to use them because they may not agree with the administrations mind set that Iraq is just like New Jersey, just with more knocked down buildings. To win the hearts and minds, like minded individuals of that populace must be employed to win them. That is all I was saying.
Instead, we have a President that proclaimed a "War on Terrorism" as our modern Crusade to fight evil doers. We leaped in to a situation without first looking at what we were jumping into - Rummy and Wolfowitz actually believed this would be some kind of liberation of Paris scenario (some old men have a hard time adjusting to the reality of the times, let alone comprehending a foreign landscape or the mores, values, and religion of a region - they tend to think in "Christian" terms and all else is evil.). Now, we must simply readjust to the reality of Iraq and its peoples - and quit with the rhetorical discourse that may sell for some in the West, but not be comprehended by others outside that limited parameter of that type thinking.
Get it?
Originally Posted by KafirChobee:
Get it?
No.Get it?
Nowhere in there was anything close to constructive advice. All you've said is that the administration is stupid and wrong and that we should be talking to... people.... that know... things.
You sure you're not a Democratic Congressman?
It's not right, and yes it is cowardice, but you should understand; we invaded their country. They can do whatever they want to kick us out.
At least that's my opinion. It's unfortunate they have to do it this way or better yet at all.
R.I.P Coalition soldiers and good luck
At least that's my opinion. It's unfortunate they have to do it this way or better yet at all.
R.I.P Coalition soldiers and good luck
Originally Posted by Alexanderofmacedon:
It's not right, and yes it is cowardice, but you should understand; we invaded their country. They can do whatever they want to kick us out. At least that's my opinion.
Some of the Zarkawi [sp?] forces are Iraqi, but a goodly proportion are not. I am not at all certain that a genuine "insurgency" motive can be applied to them. Those individuals fighting for Al-sadr or some of the Sunni/Kurd equivalents are more clearly insurgents than are those fighting with/for Al Quida. Even in the context of an insurgency, the preference for civilian targets is inexcusable.It's not right, and yes it is cowardice, but you should understand; we invaded their country. They can do whatever they want to kick us out. At least that's my opinion.
I was angered by the attack on the Marine barracks in Beirut 20+ years ago, but I understood it as an attack on a military target of what was percieved by some as an occupying force. Jordanian hotels? Balinese Night Clubs? An Iraqi daycare?
"Whatever they want to kick us out" covers an awful lot of ugly road -- are you sure you want to go there?
True, but you do see what I'm trying to say right?
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO