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Thread: Once a child molestor...
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/20/D8E017CO0.html
Why, oh why does our society still allow child molestors to breath air? Hopefully the Vietnamese will do the right thing.
Why, oh why does our society still allow child molestors to breath air? Hopefully the Vietnamese will do the right thing.
Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
Originally Posted by JAG:
Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
LOL!!! You hardly post a thing in the Backroom anymore and i post something critical about sick perverts that #### little kids, then here you come to defend these animals. You should seek help...Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
Originally Posted by JAG:
Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
Hello JAG good to see you havent changedStll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
Originally Posted by JAG:
This problem is no different to other social failures.
How is this a social failure?This problem is no different to other social failures.
Very interesting study done by DOJ in 1994. It shows that only a small percentage of convicted child molesters are arrested after their release, but this is confounded by several factors. They may still be preying on children and not getting arrested, or they may still harbor predatory tendencies but lack opportunity or are otherwise thwarted somehow.
There does seem to be some psychological data that supports the idea that pedophilia is something that doesn't go away with treatment, that it persists throughout the life of the offender. This leads people to the belief that once a pedophile is identified, that he should be constrained forever from the opportunity to molest.
I for one believe that even first time offenders should do some very long, hard time in prison. This has led some to postulate that the fear of harsh punishment leads pedophiles to kill their victims in an attempt to reduce the threat of capture. I'm not sure if that is true or if it warrants reconsideration.
We also need to do a better job of monitoring once released.
We need to strengthen our laws and stiffen penalties, but one thing I'm against is indefinite sentences. In several states convicted molesters are being kept incarcerated after their sentences have been fulfilled. That's probably not consistent with American principles of justice.
I do know that the world is a very tough place, toughest especially on the smallest and weakest. Unfortunately we can't protect everyone all of the time, and even if we had all convicted offenders locked away for ever there would still be new offenders.
This is a serious problem anddemands careful attention, to do as much as we can, but do it right.
DOJ Recidivism Paper
ichi
There does seem to be some psychological data that supports the idea that pedophilia is something that doesn't go away with treatment, that it persists throughout the life of the offender. This leads people to the belief that once a pedophile is identified, that he should be constrained forever from the opportunity to molest.
I for one believe that even first time offenders should do some very long, hard time in prison. This has led some to postulate that the fear of harsh punishment leads pedophiles to kill their victims in an attempt to reduce the threat of capture. I'm not sure if that is true or if it warrants reconsideration.
We also need to do a better job of monitoring once released.
We need to strengthen our laws and stiffen penalties, but one thing I'm against is indefinite sentences. In several states convicted molesters are being kept incarcerated after their sentences have been fulfilled. That's probably not consistent with American principles of justice.
I do know that the world is a very tough place, toughest especially on the smallest and weakest. Unfortunately we can't protect everyone all of the time, and even if we had all convicted offenders locked away for ever there would still be new offenders.
This is a serious problem anddemands careful attention, to do as much as we can, but do it right.
DOJ Recidivism Paper
ichi
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince:
How is this a social failure?
To JAG and many of his mindset, criminals are never at fault for their crimes. If we just hugged them enough and made them feel good about themselves will cure everything.How is this a social failure?
I wonder if JAG were to have children, I wonder if he would feel differently. I wonder if it were his child that some sicko ####ed would he then see it as a "social failure". Somehow i doubt it.
Maybe pedophilia is genetic like many "claim" homosexuality is. Wouldn't that be something?
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave:
Maybe pedophilia is genetic like many "claim" homosexuality is. Wouldn't that be something?
Good point (though, IIRC, JAG does not think that homosexuality is genetic).Maybe pedophilia is genetic like many "claim" homosexuality is. Wouldn't that be something?
In the end - no matter if the disposition is genetic or not - actually having sex with a minor is a choice and IMO the punishment for child molesters or guys like Gary Glitter who seem to promote prostitution of children (AFAIK he is being accused of having paid a 12-year-old girl for sex) should be rather harsh.
Also child molestation is one of the crimes were further monitoring of the perpetrator after his (or her) time in jail seems appropriate.
Originally Posted by JAG:
Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
I was just about to say that you're lucky JAG's not here anymore Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
It's not a social problem it's a personnal choice, maybe not the feelings but the act, so if he chooses to pursue it he should pay the price.
Originally Posted by JAG:
Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
Stll banging the same drum Dave?
You still need to talk to the experts who treat these people and ask them about "once a child molester...' because you are wrong. This problem is no different to other social failures.
To damn funny - child molestion is not a social failure, its the failure of the individual.
Little kids? I could understand the overblown sentiments if it were some 60 year old creep that drags grade school kids into their car and abuses them in his basement, but not in this case. The article speaks of a 15 year old girl, afterall.
At that age it's still a crime and of course it should be, but nothing that would justify a death sentence. Murder, kidnapping and grievous assault are IMO far worse crimes and rarely lead to death sentences.
At that age it's still a crime and of course it should be, but nothing that would justify a death sentence. Murder, kidnapping and grievous assault are IMO far worse crimes and rarely lead to death sentences.
does circumcison mean the same thing in the UK
Originally Posted by strike for the south:
does circumcison mean the same thing in the UK
Ever wonder why they have these high-pitched voices? does circumcison mean the same thing in the UK
What? What does circumcision mean to you, then?
Being circumcised as an adult would hurt
Exactly
Originally Posted by Kanamori:
Being circumcised as an adult would hurt
That's the origin of the schism between Judaism and Christianity. The Greeks didn't feel like going through adult circumcision. Without painkillers. Without antibiotics. The followers of Jesus said, "Eh, it's okay, you don't really have to do that," to which the Jews said, "Yes you do." It all ended in tears.Being circumcised as an adult would hurt
As for pedophiles, I've read some conflicting things about their recidivism rate. Not sure who I believe. Locking someone up for life is a very expensive piece of business, so I'd be all in favor of treatment, whether that's a drug therapy or chemical castration.
Also, is it just this lemur, or isn't there a pretty big difference between someone who sexualizes a teenager and somone who lusts for pre-teens? I mean, there's no linguistic or legal distinction, but it seems there ought to be. A person who wants to have sex with a gorgeous sixteen-year-old is misguided, but not necessarily bent and unfixable. On the other hand, a person who wants to have sex with a three-year-old is probably broken beyond repair.
Shouldn't we distinguish? Or is that opening a whole 'nother can of worms?
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave:
Why, oh why does our society still allow child molestors to breath air?
So what, crime happens. And it is not as if Glitter had killed anyone. According to the article he could get five years in Vietnam.Why, oh why does our society still allow child molestors to breath air?
Originally Posted by AdrianII:
So what, crime happens. And it is not as if Glitter had killed anyone. According to the article he could get five years in Vietnam.
But what about the emotional damage done to the child? A life time of bad memories. So no, he didn't kill anyone, but the victim will always have this painful memory. Then again, you are from the Netherlands where your morale compass does not exactly point in the right direction, if there is such a thing as a moral compass in the Netherlands...So what, crime happens. And it is not as if Glitter had killed anyone. According to the article he could get five years in Vietnam.
Dave... don't go insulting nations now...
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave:
But what about the emotional damage done to the child?
He or she will get over it.But what about the emotional damage done to the child?
Of course if we force the child through ten years of counselling in which he or she is constantly told that the damage done is irreparable, then it becomes irreparable.
Sorry Dave, I think your view reflects the typical bleeding-heart liberal approach that calls all of life's adversities 'traumatic' and turns them into an excuse for lifelong wailing and unhealthy dependence on outside help.
Originally Posted by AdrianII:
Sorry Dave, I think your view reflects the typical bleeding-heart liberal approach that calls all of life's adversities 'traumatic' and turns them into an excuse for lifelong wailing and unhealthy dependence on outside help.
So you're saying that if a man ####ed you in the arse when or made you provide oral sex to him when you were a child it would not effect you in the least? Interesting...Sorry Dave, I think your view reflects the typical bleeding-heart liberal approach that calls all of life's adversities 'traumatic' and turns them into an excuse for lifelong wailing and unhealthy dependence on outside help.
Oh and Adrian, i believe that your response is more typical of a liberal; no concern for the victim, only sympothy for the criminal.
Originally Posted by AdrianII:
He or she will get over it.
Of course if we force the child through ten years of counselling in which he or she is constantly told that the damage done is irreparable, then it becomes irreparable.
Sorry Dave, I think your view reflects the typical bleeding-heart liberal approach that calls all of life's adversities 'traumatic' and turns them into an excuse for lifelong wailing and unhealthy dependence on outside help.
Have you ever been around a child that has been molested?He or she will get over it.
Of course if we force the child through ten years of counselling in which he or she is constantly told that the damage done is irreparable, then it becomes irreparable.
Sorry Dave, I think your view reflects the typical bleeding-heart liberal approach that calls all of life's adversities 'traumatic' and turns them into an excuse for lifelong wailing and unhealthy dependence on outside help.
Well I have - and they definetly don't just get over it. Care to try again.
Tell you whatAdrian when you have a child that is molested - and I pray you never do - then come back and talk about it. I watched my child last year collaspe in a seizure created from nothing but fear and anxity (SP) from remember the events of over 4 years ago. Oh and his councellors never told him that the damage done is irreparable - all they focused on was for him to put the past behind - it works to a degree - but when a child is violated by a molestor - they never forget - nor do they just get over it.
Originally Posted by Redleg:
(..) they never forget - nor do they just get over it.
They may never forget, but they will get over it. Not just like that, which is not what I suggested anyway. Some will not get over it, but that may not always be the fault of the perpetrator -- it may also be due to prevailing attitudes toward sexuality in the surrounding society.(..) they never forget - nor do they just get over it.
I have seen no arguments here that convince me that rape or child molestation is equal to (or worse than) murder and should hence be punishable by death. In general, the victims are victimised even more by tribal notions of virginity and primitive illusions, first dispelled by Freud, of infant sexual innocence. Notions and illusions that lead the victim to believe, falsely, that the damage done is irreparable. We should not be hysterical about sexual abuse lest we want to out children to grow up hysterical.
There is a long way to go, but it can be done. A bit of historical perspective is useful here. Girls were once taught that rape was a fate worse than death. Thank heaven they aren't any longer.
I think that many here take a wrong aproach possition to this kind of matters. The punishment subject should be aproached from the point of view of the convicted, not the victim, the system wants this things to never happen again, it doesn't cares about retribution anymore. This people should not receive any punishment at all. Punishment will only make situation worst, and doesn't solves anything. But of course in this big influenceable society that we live today punishments make good "examples" so it's a good way to deviate other potential rapist from taking actions, not excelent but it's good. In tha case I don't think that the punishment shoul be more than 8 years in the worst case.
In past times we discriminated by race, by sex (well still we do) or belief system. Now we're no better, not only we do those things, but we also have sistematized the discrimination based on actions. All people suppose that there exist some kind of "free will" but that's not prooved, so the actions are only presumed responsable. Saying that it's not social fault is denying that basic truth. It could be a social fault or not, in any case the system shouldn't pay attention to this points and be impartial, but always remembering that the person is still an human being it doesn't matter what it does, so no punishment at all should be always on the book.
In past times we discriminated by race, by sex (well still we do) or belief system. Now we're no better, not only we do those things, but we also have sistematized the discrimination based on actions. All people suppose that there exist some kind of "free will" but that's not prooved, so the actions are only presumed responsable. Saying that it's not social fault is denying that basic truth. It could be a social fault or not, in any case the system shouldn't pay attention to this points and be impartial, but always remembering that the person is still an human being it doesn't matter what it does, so no punishment at all should be always on the book.
Originally Posted by AdrianII:
He or she will get over it.
Wow AdrianII, they will have to don't they. I am sure you could get along fine with her,He or she will get over it.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
Wow AdrianII, they will have to don't they. I am sure you could get along fine with her,
I don't know her, but if she is against lynching, vigilantism, racial profiling, deportation of minorities, fake statistics and everything else you advocate, what can I say? I already like her.Wow AdrianII, they will have to don't they. I am sure you could get along fine with her,
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave:
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/20/D8E017CO0.html
Why, oh why does our society still allow child molestors to breath air? Hopefully the Vietnamese will do the right thing.
You do know what's the death penalty is Vietnam right? If you don't, it is the execution squad, death by firing. http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/20/D8E017CO0.html
Why, oh why does our society still allow child molestors to breath air? Hopefully the Vietnamese will do the right thing.
I'm currently living in Vietman, Saigon as a expat (I'm a teenager). The wierd thing about Vietnamese laws are that if a policeman see you forging a money or even drawing out a sketch of a money currency or any of those stuff along the lines, they get to shoot you on the spot. But if you take drugs or are found to be in possession of drugs, they just throw you into jail.
And Vietnam is not so free, the government still check and censor people e-mails and other website espiecally political websites, although now its harder to do it given the fact that Vietnam is expanding rapidly. Ironically, Vietnam has also seen a rise in experienced hackers. Most of my Vietnam friends are extrememly proficient hackers. If they want to destroy this forum, they could in a few hours. I can't even trust them with my computer data and my laptop.
And no, I don't know what is the penalty for hacking in Vietnam. I don't think there's any real laws cos Vietnam don't really know what to do.
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