Conceptual design of a Wars of the Roses game

[Lord Adherbal]

I'll take that as a challenge then Adherbal

fine, it's a win-win situation for me: being proven right, or having an excellent mod to play

[dclare4]

Actually KINGMAKER the computer version was one reason I got really into this period. If you recall I was thinking of just using the MTW basic Europe map in a 'board game' fashion though it was more boardgame SLASH terrain map kind of thing. With BI however since maps are easier to do you could actually have non-contiguous territories w/c can represent offices or holdings - like the holdings of let's say Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick can be represented scattered across the map, same thing with offices. Then again you can also make it totally 'board gamey' by just making box type areas that players can move into w/c can be just representative of various things.

I also liked that MTW style 'crusade' function in that you would set a 'rendezvous' or 'objective' territory and the 'crusade' would move toward it, picking up followers as it went along. If you can script this... visors up salut!

Yes, seeing the banners of the various nobles is a DEFINITE draw. If I had a penny for every time I wanted to do a mod like this just for the sake of seeing the faction banners and coats of arms... speaking of which, any chance of having treachery ON the battlefield?

If you keep diplomacy in game but only limited to that specific 'Parliament box' as I described previously perhaps you could just have them demand certain 'areas' w/c are linked to titles/offices in the way that they demand control of settlements in BI. However the trick is activating it depending on certain conditions (Parliament in session). For example there's a certain region that represents 'The Earldom of Warwick' - the diplomat from let's say Courtenay can demand that this 'region' be turned over to him in the normal way. If titles can be attached to regions that would be better.

Cheers,
Clare

[Duke John]

Power Counters
A new idea with a cheap name. Once a military campaign starts, either intiated by the player or the AI, then both factions get a number of Power Counters depending on, lets say, the number of loyal nobles, kingship and offices. These counters represent the power an heir can impose over his subordinates. He cannot expect all of his nobles to raise their armies so he needs to choose which nobles will contribute to the campaign. PCs may also be used to cause revolts, or perhaps it would be best if they were random and not controlled by either faction.

A campaign may not be decided by a single battle so spending all your PCs might leave you vulnerable for the rest of the campaign as the armies of your nobles will dissolve if their leader is killed or when the campaign takes too long. Hopefully this will add a bit more strategy to the game as players will need to think how many armies he requires.

An further use of power counters may be that they are used when moving through hostile territory.



Clare

Then again you can also make it totally 'board gamey' by just making box type areas that players can move into w/c can be just representative of various things.

That is possible. What sort of things do you have in mind?

any chance of having treachery ON the battlefield?

No, the engine does not allow that.

Book
As explained in the first post I will include a book that shows information. This is needed since the standard user interface needs to be disabled to make this concept work. Below is a quick model put into the game. The right page would be readable and could display information like what troops a noble has (always the same) plus his banner. It could also notify the player that an heir has been crowned king or the rules of the game. The book would lie right next to the parchment that displays the map of England. Since the pages are textures I can add fancy stuff like caligraphic lettering, a painted and those large capital letters.

[Duke John]

The map
The map will show England divided into the shires, plus the regions that are used when evading the country; Scotland, Ireland, France, Calais and Burgundy (the map texture is from Imperial Glory).

Each shire will have a 3D shield icon sitting in the middle. Alongside the shield there may a 3D icon showing allegiance of the noble; either a white rose (Yorkist), a red rose (Lancastrian) or no rose (neutral). The shield is used for various interface issues such as movement, giving loyalty counters, setting the rendez-vous and displaying a page from the book.

Since the map has a large open space in the right top corner I think I will place the book there on a book stand. This will make it easier to read and it will also make the area of focus smaller.

Cheers,
Duke John

[GrimSta]

wow! i must say im impressed by your ideas!!.....so for this we can expect all of the Nobles who took part in the wars of the roses and new models for them (kinda obvious that one :P)

If you pull this off i will love you.....but im not that kinda englishman oh! heres an idea!!

Remember in Age of Mythology there were some very good descriptions of the mythology of the factions (norse, greek, egyptian) taken from a book about it....you know, like gods worshipped hopw they worshipped them, stuff like that.....is it possible you could add that sort of stuff onto the book? (names of all nobles, political idealogies of the time, current wars, nations involved in giving aide and what really happened: Which nobles supplied who with what etc etc)

[Duke John]

Good idea! I have a limited number of pages at my disposal so I will have to see how much background stories I can put into the book. But yes, that is possible. Although it probably means that you cannot go instantly to a certain page unless it is displayed as a reaction to clicking on some UI element; like the shield.
... or I might add some kind of indexing UI element; you know those cloth strips that are used between two pages to remind you where you were?

A bit of brainstorming:
Heraldic shields outside of England: 2 pages showing background history of the country; for example France at war with Burgundy, the fight for independence of Scotland.
Harbour: a bit of info about the Hanseatic League, the dangers of sea-faring.
Family heraldry: Perhaps I can use part of the map to display the heraldry of the different heirs. A counter can notify which one is the current heir and wether he is crowned. Clicking on the shield will show the characteristics of the family member.

Please give me more!

[GrimSta]

ummm....familly heraldry for all the old english families not just the heirs....i know i wouldnt mind seeing mine

[dclare4]

The map
The map will show England divided into the shires, plus the regions that are used when evading the country; Scotland, Ireland, France, Calais and Burgundy (the map texture is from Imperial Glory).

Each shire will have a 3D shield icon sitting in the middle. Alongside the shield there may a 3D icon showing allegiance of the noble; either a white rose (Yorkist), a red rose (Lancastrian) or no rose (neutral). The shield is used for various interface issues such as movement, giving loyalty counters, setting the rendez-vous and displaying a page from the book.

Since the map has a large open space in the right top corner I think I will place the book there on a book stand. This will make it easier to read and it will also make the area of focus smaller.

Cheers,
Duke John

Neat map! I think that you'd probably just want to include the British isles and Northern France, Normandy to the Frisians including Paris.

The box idea goes like this - it's a takeoff on the idea I had for the MTW WotR map using Europe for England. It's essentially monopoly squares like to get to London from Dover you pass from Dover to Canterbury to Blackheath to Southwark. Something like that.

Clare

[tutankamon]

great idea!! love to see how it progresses

[Duke John]

I'm at the moment translating the concept into scripting codes. To aid that process I am making a Design Document. If enough people are interested then I could update this thread with my progress. You can get a clearer idea of what I am trying to achieve and, perhaps more interesting, how.