Justification of War

[Ianofsmeg16]

Ok, so i just had to write a page long essay on the Justification of war (including some religious examples along the way) and, with the help of experience reading backroom posts/threads, i sped through it, but what i wrote is my own opinion.....basically its all about attack only if provoked, declare war only if there is a Genocidal dictator on the loose around europe or if your countries religion is threatened.

so what do you guys see as a just war?

[InsaneApache]

Iraq?...according to Bliar and 'shrub' it's just a war....

Seriously WWII could be seen, from the UK perspective, as a just war and it follows that we held the moral high ground until the USSR and the USA decided to join the party.

[littlelostboy]

One justification is religious: My god is better than your god. In this case, Christianty against Islam. Another justification can also be the fight over precious raw materials. When a country has to little resources to support a large and increasing population, there are two choice. War or trade. War always seem the most frequent answer and sometimes trade is just a pretext for war.

[lancelot]

One justification is religious: My god is better than your god. In this case, Christianty against Islam. Another justification can also be the fight over precious raw materials. When a country has to little resources to support a large and increasing population, there are two choice. War or trade. War always seem the most frequent answer and sometimes trade is just a pretext for war.

Religion is hardly a just cause for modern International Relations theory.


@Ian, Read M Walzer's 'just and unjust wars' for proper IR/'just war' theory.
Where/what are you studying BTW?

[littlelostboy]

Religion is hardly a just cause for modern International Relations theory.


@Ian, Read M Walzer's 'just and unjust wars' for proper IR/'just war' theory.
Where/what are you studying BTW?

I don't do history. I do only geography which talk about about trade and all those stuff. In my school, we are given one choice, choose geography, history or IT. Chose geo as it was my fav subject. So I don't know what is International Relations Theory.

[Ianofsmeg16]

@Ian, Read M Walzer's 'just and unjust wars' for proper IR/'just war' theory.
Where/what are you studying BTW?

The paper i wrote was for Religious Education, at a GCSE level

[Soulforged]

One justification is religious: My god is better than your god. In this case, Christianty against Islam. Another justification can also be the fight over precious raw materials. When a country has to little resources to support a large and increasing population, there are two choice. War or trade. War always seem the most frequent answer and sometimes trade is just a pretext for war.

That doesn't justifies anything, it's only an excuse and not a good or real one.
Justification has a source generally in utilitarian views of the world. I accidentally passed through one of this theories when investigating the Malvinas subject. In conclusion it said: War is only justified when there are significant interests to be defended (such as nation, democracy), when there's an attack and the nation attacked must defend themselves, when there're rights to be defended or opposed (such as rightful own of given lands: ie- Argentina owns Malvinas, Argentina can make war and be justified). When there's a treaty of peace violated, when the people habititing a certain territory want to belong to the pretended conqueror. The other ones are utilitarian, like for example, reafirming resources or conquering new resources, it's seen as bad in modern society, but the truth is that many nations have been justifying internally (I mean between the internal administration) this way while saying other things to outsiders. Also there's an interesting fact with the effects of justification. Justification keeps everything in the status quo until the damage is healed. For example: if Argentina can legally attack the Malvinas and they fail, the damage is not cured so Argentina can do it over and over until damage is finally healed, and it will be always justified.

[Viking]

The only possibly justified war is defensive. Teh hard part is find out when the war is offensive and when it`s defensive, WW1 being a good example.

Ideally one don`t make wars at all.

[Geoffrey S]

If I started a war it'd be justified. Maybe.

[lancelot]

The only possibly justified war is defensive.

That's not accurate Im afraid.

Just and un-just war is a complex issue still unresolved in higher acedemic circles.

[Marcellus]

The only possibly justified war is defensive.

What about wars to stop genocide?

[Rodion Romanovich]

Ok, so i just had to write a page long essay on the Justification of war (including some religious examples along the way) and, with the help of experience reading backroom posts/threads, i sped through it, but what i wrote is my own opinion.....basically its all about attack only if provoked, declare war only if there is a Genocidal dictator on the loose around europe or if your countries religion is threatened.

so what do you guys see as a just war?

Same, but first discuss with the enemy and see if a peaceful solution can be found. Avoid pure misunderstandings, and the more subtle forms of "misunderstanding" like the groups looking like enemies to each other and difficulties existing in seeing the other side's intentions, and lack of guarantees that peaces would benefit both sides more than war. Of course, if it's about defense, it's always justified, but then again you don't start the war, so then the discussion about justification never takes place; you have no choice. Basically all this could be translated into a single principle to gain your own group and yourself in the long term, using war when it is necessary for achieving it. Avoiding war as much as possible and finding peaceful solutions to disagreements often is most benefitial if you think in a long term perspective. IMO.

[JAG]

There are never many 'just wars' or at least wars fought on 'just' and moral reasoning. Even WW2 was not a moral war for the Brits, as we didn't give a damn about anything other than our own self interest.

A just war, in my opinion, is one agreed via the UN on humanitarian grounds. In the modern world, that can be the only way a war should be justified.

Though it would probably help if we didn't arm everyone to the hilt with our weapons.

[master of the puppets]

waras occor for many reasons, morality, religion, but also for power. if there is over population and not enough lansd whaty is there to do but invade your neighbor and so take there land. also gold, everyone wants money in gold or oil. disgression threw power, defeating enemies just to flaunt power and make the enemy quail, feudal japan did thias alot, frivolous wars just to look tough. theres also personal maddness (hitler) or the defusal of a would ber enemy (american indians).

all in all there is but one thing to realise, war is human nature, more natural even then peace and it is only threw the great wars of the past that we have all our great inventions and arent overpopulated as hell.

[miho]

Every war in our planets history has started because of money. Religion, dictators and such are only excuses for someone to drop for a cup of tea with his army. From the first civilizations the reason for war was conquest. Do you think that the Greeks only wanted to bring Helena back from Troy, Do you think that the crusaders really had noble causes. They pillaged Constantinople in one crusade and captured Zadar for Venetians in another. And for the newer ones. War for the independence in the USA started because the English were takeing all their money. WW 1 started because Germany and Italy wanted colonies. I'm not sure for the WW 2 'cause Hitler was a mad man but he also must have liked money. Why did Saddam invade Kuwait? Because he wanted their oil deposits which bring a lot of money. See anything that appears in all of my examples. It's money.
So I don't think there is any justification for war. If you're attacked you have every right to defend yourself but there isn't an excuse to attack someone.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Every war in our planets history has started because of money. Religion, dictators and such are only excuses for someone to drop for a cup of tea with his army. From the first civilizations the reason for war was conquest. Do you think that the Greeks only wanted to bring Helena back from Troy, Do you think that the crusaders really had noble causes. They pillaged Constantinople in one crusade and captured Zadar for Venetians in another. And for the newer ones. War for the independence in the USA started because the English were takeing all their money. WW 1 started because Germany and Italy wanted colonies. I'm not sure for the WW 2 'cause Hitler was a mad man but he also must have liked money. Why did Saddam invade Kuwait? Because he wanted their oil deposits which bring a lot of money. See anything that appears in all of my examples. It's money.
So I don't think there is any justification for war. If you're attacked you have every right to defend yourself but there isn't an excuse to attack someone.

Very good, but why want money? For safety, power and with power people believe comes the ability to better defend themselves. While the laziness and will to enslave others to do all work for them may drive many, the utter desire for safety stands above all. Greed is just a stronger form of desire for safety - while one cow may feed all, why not kill ten cows, and get marginals? Why not kill 100 cows? Since civilization, money has been the ultimate embodyment of safety, positions of power comes next. Get money, and you get much of the safety you want (in the short term - you lose it all when there's a French/Russian revolution type of revolt). Get power of different kinds and you, seemingly, get much safety, or at least you can keep worse leaders from getting the power position by claiming it personally.

There are very few wars fought by monkeys, the worst example known is one or two raids conducted by some male gorillas against another gorilla flock, but it might have been influenced by humans destroying gorilla habitats and in general weakening the survivability of gorillas. We're not fundamentally different from monkeys, and there's no genes for money - money hasn't existed long enough yet.

@Those claiming war is in human nature: War is not in human nature, the desire for safety is. If there's no reason to go to war, we don't go to war. How often do you start wars on the social level, where you CAN start a war? Do you, in private life, team up with others and try to conquer them, defame them and destroy them? Wow, imagine how tea breaks would look in an average company! If war had been in human nature, you would have done this. Wars thankfully only happen in situations of misunderstanding or when the leaders have too much greed (greed is really only exaggerated desire for safety), when there's a potential a competitor may grow powerful and become an enemy in the future, when the intentions of a competitor are unclear, or other general situations where there's a desire for safety. Civilization is creating a bad outer frame for preventing such different situations of future threat from being created. One of the reasons is the humans using tools and the ability in civilization to alter power balance so quickly and so easily. If anyone can acquire power so quickly, then you always have reason for fear because someone you didn't expect can come and destroy you all of a sudden. Only solution is to kill/conquer/destroy/defame every single other human on the planet, and it's not that easy to do, as history has shown. And since the structure is left the same, the winners (assuming anyone could win such a struggle) would soon turn into each others' competitors again, and the procedure would have been repeated.

You all have to excuse me, but I'm tired of all people saying that all people are born evil and all people saying that all people are born good. We're born to react in certain ways in certain situations. Bad situations equals bad behavior, good situations equals good behavior. It's as simple as that. It's an obvious fact supported by both statistics and theory.

[Quietus]

Ok, so i just had to write a page long essay on the Justification of war (including some religious examples along the way) and, with the help of experience reading backroom posts/threads, i sped through it, but what i wrote is my own opinion.....basically its all about attack only if provoked, declare war only if there is a Genocidal dictator on the loose around europe or if your countries religion is threatened.

so what do you guys see as a just war?

War of unification is sometimes justified since it is inevitable anyway.

[Soulforged]

War of unification is sometimes justified since it is inevitable anyway.

The real question is: Why do we wanna be unified? And even then: Why do we wanna be forced into unification? (That's of course if you mean like a country)

[Quietus]

The real question is: Why do we wanna be unified? And even then: Why do we wanna be forced into unification? (That's of course if you mean like a country)

Yes, I'm talking about countries, especially those contiguous and sharing much culture, people, economy and natural borders (for self protection). Can you imagine a divided mainland China, Japan or the United States?

The Russian Federation/USSR was obviously an exception and Taiwan (w/China).

[Soulforged]

Yes, I'm talking about countries, especially those contiguous and sharing much culture, people, economy and natural borders (for self protection). Can you imagine a divided mainland China, Japan or the United States?

The Russian Federation/USSR was obviously an exception and Taiwan (w/China).

Yes I can. In fact I've plans for them.
Seriously I can. The problem is not what can I imagine but what can be done? And this can be done, when all people living under the rule of some state realize that they don't need of this state to feel as a nation, and if they need it then they already seized to be a nation.