Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

[Kommodus]

I've missed the chance to comment on the last few developments here, so I'll do so quickly now:

1. I would actually do a combination of the two supply options: bring some supplies, but also take what you can from the Welsh. I doubt they'll use scorched earth tactic, but even so it would be unwise to rely on foraging for all our supplies.

2. I would take the Wye valley, the longer but safer route. Two or three days difference is not too significant, and the risk of an ambush in the narrower valley is far too great.

[Mr White]

I am waiting impatiently for the next chapter of this tale. Common don't leave us hanging right in the middle of the story

[Mouzafphaerre]

I am waiting impatiently for the next chapter of this tale. Common don't leave us hanging right in the middle of the story

.
+1
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[AntiochusIII]

Now, now. Where is King Henry? He should not leave the Welsh waiting.


...


+1

[King Henry V]

I'm on a much deserved holiday in Vienna, still recovering from my exam period! This thread is very much alive, just have been struck with a cold for the past few days and I did not really feel like writing. Also I had forgotten my password for the net cafe account, so I had to sort that out! The final piecfe of the chapter is being written, but by hand as I am not going to spend valuable internet time thinking about ideas, so I will have to type the last bit on to the computer´, which should happen in the next two days or so.

[Kraxis]

A cold? A thing I know at the moment... *roark*

Good to see you back if only for this comment.

[Strike For The South]

see Henry you dont mess with the welsh

[King Henry V]

No woad painted, sheep loving spirit is going to keep me down, so here's the continuation. Sorry for the delay.
You depart with your army at dawn the next day, taking the road to Hereford. You have sent messengers ahead to order supplies to be prepared, which will be assembled at Hereford that is to be your main base for this sally. Your brother gawps at the money this will cost the Treasury, but reluctantly agrees.
You arrive in Hereford after two days march, and you are pleased to see the many bags of corn, dried meat and fish, hard cheese and twice-baked bread. There are scores of heavy carts to carry all the food, and heavy shire horses to pull them. A score of creditors harass Henry for payment, which he grumblingly gives. The gold you have captured from Baldwin de Redvers is fast diminishing.
On the morning of your departure, you attend mass in the cathedral, followed by a blessing of the army by the Bishop of Hereford. Your army leaves the city at noon, making sure that many of the camp followers are left behind. You bid farewell to your brother. He is to stay behind at Hereford to oversee the despatching of supplies, as his counsel will not be of much use for this military affair. You will miss him, as he has been one of your staunchest supporters, especially in the beginning of your reign. You send the severed head of de Redvers to Gloucester with your complements to Earl Robert.
As you near the border, the land becomes more and more desolated. Scores of villages and forts lie burned, the fields blackened and the livestock slaughtered, the rotting carcasses attracting swarms of flies to feast on the putrid flesh. More and more refugees flee from the borders. They all tell the same accounts of death, rape and robbery.
You spend the evening at one of the isolated border forts that dot the region. You can see from the charred section of the wooden walls that the castle has not been saved from attack. The castellan is a tanned old soldier, a veteran of the wars in Normandy against the King of France, the Angevins and William Clito, son of the late Duke Robert of Normandy, claimant to the throne of England. He offers you some advice for fighting against the Welsh along with a thin vegetable stew.
“Sire, be wary of those Welsh out there. They will be on their own ground; they will know the lie of the land and will use that advantage to the utmost. They may be savages, but they can be hardy fighters. Do not underestimate them, nor their bow. We have few archers who can match them in speed and accuracy.”
After another two days you finally cross the border into Wales and begin the slow ascent up the valley. You cross the Wye, swollen by heavy rain and the melting mountain snow, at an old timber bridge that has miraculously survived the retaliations made by the Marcher Lords. Indeed, during your first day’s march into Welsh territory, the desolated land seems little different from that on the English side of the bloody frontier. And it hardly ever stops raining. You sometimes wish you were back in Blois or Normandy.
As you advance deeper and deeper into Wales, you decide to array your army into a more cautious formation. The infantry and the archers form the centre, protecting the precious supply wagons from attack. Forming the vanguard is a mixed body of knights and light cavalry, lead by a pair of experienced English guides who have a knowledge of the territory. De Rougehavre’s horsemen flank the column, protecting the ever-vulnerable sides from ambush. Your rear is protected by the mounted mercenary spearmen. You also have a German engineer and several carpenters to build siege engines for the predicted assault on Dinas Bran.
There is little human presence, not even any Welsh scouts or bowmen to pester the army. However, the more you advance, the more you get a feeling of being observed.
You have now entered the Welsh lands that have so far remained untouched by border warfare. You decide to make up a force of 40 light horsemen, 20 knights. This force will advance ahead of the main column, fanning out to capture any more food and ravage the land ahead. They return after an afternoon’s pillaging laden with food and plunder.
You awake next morning at dawn and climb a nearby hill to get a vantage point for the day’s march. Palls of black smoke rise up into the sky over the horizon. Th Welsh are burning their own land, in an attempt to deprive you of food. Soon all that your forages find is the scorched black earth left behind by the retreating Welsh. The closest you come to any fighting is when a tiny band of archers decide to shoot their arrows at you. They thud harmlessly into the ground, injuring no one.
After another five days march, you turn west from the Wye and begin the ascent up to the high plateau that lies between the Wye and the Usk.
You have now eaten through more than half of your supplies, and you will have to send some of cavalry to return with more once you have laid siege to Dinas Bran.
Tens days after having left Hereford, you ford the Usk. Set against the blood red sky is the imposing fortress of Dinas Bran. Situated high on a steep hill, it can only be approached from one side, by a narrow path that winds its way up the crag.
You decide to ride further on with your bodyguard to inspect the castle more closely. The rest of the army is ordered to conceal itself in a wood next to the river.
There is no apparent life in the castle. Indeed, it is still very much in the ruinous state the last reports about is had said. The stonework is crumbling and several sections of the wall are nothing but piles of rubble. Even the wooden gates are rotting. Still no man appears on the battlements to inspect what this band of armoured horsemen does before the castle. You ride back down the hill to the forest. Your decision is made.
“My lords!” you shout. “Assemble your cavalry. We attack forthwith!”
There are shouts of surprise at this decision.
“Calm yourselves. Either there is no one in the castle or they are all asleep. An old woman could push open those gates. We must seize this chance!”
The attack is to be made only by your mounted soldiers, so as to act with speed and surprise. Five men armed with axes will ride ahead and open the gates in time for your horsemen to stream through and take the castle.
At first, everything goes according to plan. The axe men break open the rotten doors and you lead your men charging through the gates, yelling the screams of battle as you thunder into the yard. You expect to see at least a few Welshmen lounging in the yard, yet there is not a soul in sight.
You order some soldiers to dismount and scour the rest of Dinas Bran for any sign of life. After a while they return.
“The place is empty, my liege. From what we can see, no one has been in here for several days,” they reply.
The rest of the army moves into the fastness as darkness begins to fall. You and the barons occupy the sole habitable building, a large stone tower. A servant scrapes the thick carpet of bat droppings that covers the tower’s floor and lays down a bed of fresh straw from the carts. You eat a supper of roast chicken before going to lie down on your bed, your mind still puzzled by the day’s events.

“My Lord, my Lord!”
You awake from your sleep and gaze blearily at a servant standing before you.
“Yes?” you mumble.
“My Lord, the Welsh! They are upon us!” the servant shouts.
“What?” you exclaim and jump from your bed, all tiredness forgotten. You wrap your cloak round your shoulders and run outside. You scramble up the walls and reach the battlements. It is then that you see exactly what the servant had been so nervous about. A multitude of Welsh spearmen and archers crest the eastern hills of the valley and march towards the castle, while more assemble at the crag’s foot.
“When did you first notice them?” you ask Gilbert of Clare, who is guarding the walls with his men-at-arms.
“A lookout first noticed them at first light,” he replies. “At first we thought it was only a small war band, but when their numbers got larger I thought it was best to warn you, Lord King.”
“How many have arrived so far?”
“Last time I counted it was nearing fifteen hundred, and they’ll be more to come.”
“Dear God,” you say.
“May He heed your prayers, for I think we shall be needing every bit of help we can get,” Leofric remarks and strides away.
Shouts of surprise sound from the gate where your bowmen are stationed. You look over the walls to see a small band of Welsh spearmen are jeering at you, taunting you to come out and face them. A volley of arrows is loosed from the gatehouse and cut several of the warriors. They decide it would be best to withdraw
You climb down from the ramparts and assemble a meeting of all the barons. It is held in the ancient keep and you are all seated on barrels of wine and sacks of corn.
“My lords,” you begin to speak, “As you know, the Welsh savages are massed underneath our walls as we speak, now numbering over two thousand. Action must be taken forthwith. I will be most grateful for any advice you have to give.”
Robert of Leicester stands and speaks.
“Sire, the situation now is precarious. If your majesty were to remain here much longer, your royal personage may be in danger. Lord King, I suggest you depart immediately. You could raise an army; smash these savages and relieve the castle, taking with you most important advisors naturally.”
“No!” you shout. “No! I will not heed such cowardly counsel! I will not abandon these soldiers because some impudent noblemen fears for his skin!”
Leicester sits back down again, his head bent in shame.
At this moment, a man-at-arms bursts into the room.
“My lords!” he cries. “A relief force of knights has appeared. We are saved!”
There is a general hubbub in the keep as you all file out into the yard. You climb the ramparts to see for yourself what is happening. There is indeed a force of about three hundred knights and men-at-arms marching towards the valley. Their banner is too distant, though, and you cannot quite see who leads the soldiers.
“It is my Lord of Gloucester’s men!” shouts a young squire on the battlements.
“What?” you exclaim and peer more closely to see the coat of arms on the banner.
The last news of Robert of Gloucester was that he struck by the flux in Oxford, preventing him from joining you at Monmouth.
Finally, the force’s pendant is close enough for you to see the heraldic device. It is indeed the three golden hawks on the blue field of Robert of Gloucester. You watch closely as the knights near the Welsh. Then, your heart stops. A group of horsemen at the head of the column ride forward towards some Welshmen mounted on their large horses. They clasp each other’s hands and some embrace. It is clear to you what has happened.
“That treacherous rogue!” you cry and storm away.
Robert of Gloucester, it seems has betrayed you and joined forces with the Welsh.
Your suspicions are confirmed later when a horseman rides up to the walls to parlay. It is none other than the Earl himself. As it begins to raing yet again, he stops and addresses the soldiers massed along the ramparts.
“My lords, you see before you a man of clear conscience. I have pondered endlessly on what actions should be taken; yet in the end I decided to act upon my sense of justice. I, Robert Fitzroy, Earl of Gloucester can no longer owe my allegiance to a man who has perjured himself, a man who has stolen the crown from its rightful holder. I can no longer swear fealty to that usurper, Stephen of Blois. My allegiance lies with the Empress Matilda, Countess of Anjou and rightful sovereign of this land. In doing so I have lost no honour: one cannot be oath sworn to a perjurer, a man who has broken his own oaths of loyalty to their lawful suzerain, and to God.
“This usurper has not only followed the counsel of his perfidious foreign mercenaries and favourites, his vile henchmen have made many an attempt on my life.
“To this end, I have allied myself with our Welsh neighbours who have also suffered most grievously because of this tyrant’s cruel lust for blood.
“However, my quarrel is not with any of you, solely with the usurper himself. Anyone who wishes to join me can be free to do so and I will welcome them with open arms. However, those who will remain loyal to Stephen of Blois will be marked as my enemy. I shall wait until nightfall for your answers,” Robert says and rides away.
“Shall my crossbowmen try to shoot a bolt through his neck, my Lord?” a baron asks.
“No, that is not needed,” you reply. “He has come to parlay and I will honour his right to come and leave unharmed.”
You reconvene the council again to decide on what to do.
“If any man wishes to join my Lord Gloucester’s forces,” you say, “then they may leave forthwith. However, I would like to warn you that any alliance with the Welsh comes with a price. And who knows how much land and gold they have demanded this time. It is truly a large army: some soldiers have said that they have seen the banners of Powys, Dyfet and even far away Gwynned. What do you think they asked for in return for their spear? Mayhap the whole of the Welsh Marches?”
“That is impossible,” says one of the Marcher Lords, refusing to believe that his land is in danger. “Robert of Gloucester himself has lands in the Marches.”
“Robert Fitzroy is the richest baron in England,” you say disdainfully. “What does he care about a few trivial acres, when if his conspiracy succeeds, he will be the Countess of Anjou’s chief lieutenant and be the most powerful lord in the realm?”
“Are we doomed then?” Guilbert of Clare enquires.
“No, not yet. We still have fourteen hundred good, experienced soldiers. And I’ll warrant that any one of our soldiers is worth two, if not three of those barbarians, if we play our hand well.
“However, if you decide to join Robert of Gloucester, let it be known that you not only weaken your King, you strengthen the Welsh savages, who have been our constant enemy these four score years. Think on that before you decide.”
A baron rises. “Sire, it is with a heavy heart that I must join the Earl of Gloucester. He is the father of my wife and I cannot bring myself to fight against my own father-in-law.”
“My lord, you forget that Robert fitz Roy is my cousin,” you retort. “Nevermind, you are free to leave. I will have no man here who does not fight for me willingly.”
The baron bows and leaves.
In total, three barons and seven knights with their retinues decide to join Robert of Gloucester, nearly all connected either by blood or by marriage to him, or who find their lands almost completely surrounded by the Earl’s fiefdoms. They take with them one hundred and sixty soldiers, leaving you in command of an army twelve hundred men strong.
After the last of the turncoat barons leaves Dinas Bran, you order the presence of the chief captains of the army.
Before asking for their counsel, you sum up the situation.
You have enough food to last for another four days, perhaps eight if your susbsist on half-rations. With the Welsh blocking all approaches, the hope of being resupplied from England is an impossible thought. Indeed, the supply carts which were expected to arrive within the next couple of days have most probably benn cut down with their escort.
You, are the least, ten days march through hostile territory from the nearest friendly outpost, marching down the Usk valley since the Wye has been ravaged and will yield no more food. The Welsh will be unlikely to burn the crops along the Usk as it will be the last important fertile valley they have left untouched in Powys, and they will not risk a famine.
You have an army of twelve hundred men who you will have to pit against a horde of two and a half thousand warriors, many of hwom wield the feared Welsh war bow. The Welsh are also supported by three hundred heavily armoured soldiers under the command of Robert of Gloucester.
The castle is in a very poor state of repair. In several places the wall is only a pile of rubble two men high and the gate is only blocked by a pair of heavy wagons.
There is no well in the castle and the supply you have brought with you will run out in four days.
The situation is dire.
“My liege,” says Gilbert of Clare, “perhaps if we attempt to parlay with the Welsh we will be able to negiotiate some terms. If we offer enough gold, we may cause dissent among their ranks which will leave Robert of Gloucester isolated.”
“Lord King, the time for chattering and bribing has long passed,” Lord Roger fitz William interceeds. “It is now time to wip these Welshmen. I say we attack tonight, while they are abed. The only way they can defend against a concerted attack is by forming a shield wall. Deny them this chance and they will break and run for their lives.”
Robert Beaumont objects. “Your majesty, the risks of undertaking a night attack are too great. The assault could easily turn into a chaotic brawl in the dark. Our few precious forces could become lost and be cut down piecemeal. Insteas, I suggest that we abandon Dinas Bran, sleight it before we leave if that is at all possible, and march back to England. May I remind your majesty that Robert fitz Roy’s defiance is a far more pressing matter than some petty raiding, much of which was against the traitor’s own lands.”

1. Negotiate with the Welsh to see what you may obtain from them.
2. Launch a nocturnal attack against your foe’s camp.
3. Render the castle indefensible and retreat to England.

If you have any other strategies to suggest, please go ahead.

[Ludens]

The Welsh have all the advantages, so negotiating with them will cost more than we can afford. A nocturnal battle seems a good way to win, but they are probably expecting you to do that. Beating a tactical retreat seems the best option, but they will harry you all along the way and it will cost you much prestige. I therefor suggest trickery.

Try to stage a breakthrough attempt, leaving part of the army at the castle. If you manage to break through, turn and attack the Welsh rear while the castle troops also advance. If the breakthrough fails, feint a rout, lure the Welsh to the castle, and then attack.

This strategy is dependent on the Welsh commanders not having much control over their troops, so more information on the Welsh army, its formation, tactics and commanders would be appreciated. If my intuition is wrong and the Welsh do have disciplined force, I'd go with a carefully planned nocturnal advance, preceded by several probing attack to throw the Welsh off guard.

[Mr White]

1) We can't afford to bribe the Welsh.

2) the only viable option but very risky if the Welsh don't run right away.

3) this is politically impossible, you risk losing the precious support that you have now.

So I agree with Ludens to use some form of trickery but I don't agree with his plan. If we send only a part of our army we make it the Welsh to easy to isolate a part of our men. I would suggest some kind of diversion with some fast cavalry so we can hit the Welsh in the rear or at least while they are disorganised. I just hope the battle ends fast so we don't get in a slugmach with Gloucesters' men while the Welsh can surround us and target us with their bows unharmed.

[Lord Winter]

2
Send Calvary around the flanks in an attempted to cut off the archers while your own archers hold your front. Then take your infantry and hit the other flank hard or keep them in reserve depending on how the battle goes.

[Ludens]

So I agree with Ludens to use some form of trickery but I don't agree with his plan. If we send only a part of our army we make it the Welsh to easy to isolate a part of our men. I would suggest some kind of diversion with some fast cavalry so we can hit the Welsh in the rear or at least while they are disorganised. I just hope the battle ends fast so we don't get in a slugmach with Gloucesters' men while the Welsh can surround us and target us with their bows unharmed.

Good point. But I am bit unsure what you are suggesting as an alternative. Whatever we do, we have to create major chaos in the Welsh army and then hit them hard.

[Lord Winter]

compltly agree, i favor a Chansolorville or Canne type battle plan to defeat them.

[AntiochusIII]

We have no choice but to fight. Negotiations or full-scale retreat would cost you dearly. The Welsh might be tough fighters and dangerous bowmen but this we can fight with our cavalry...if the traitorous knights don't pin us down. So it is of primary importance that an initiative has to be gained and capitalized on to a full effect.

The only choice is a night attack, even if they expect us to do exactly that. I guess cavalry diversionary tactics can work.

Can we have more information on the discipline and nature of the Welsh army that surrounds the castle?

What do you great advisors (hehe) think of the idea of making it look like you attempt to ride with the cavalry to break through the siege while leaving most of your forces behind (sending out bodyguards, dressing up some loyal barons)? That could work as an excellent diversionary tactic IF the Welsh/Gloucester falls for it since they will try to capture the "king."

[Lord Winter]

Lets not send in all our Calvary. Lets keep some back to strike there opposite flank hard.

[Mr White]

What do you great advisors (hehe) think of the idea of making it look like you attempt to ride with the cavalry to break through the siege while leaving most of your forces behind (sending out bodyguards, dressing up some loyal barons)? That could work as an excellent diversionary tactic IF the Welsh/Gloucester falls for it since they will try to capture the "king."

I was thinking exactly that when I suggested a cavalry diversion.

[Mr White]

I couldn't find the battle of Chansolorville so I can't comment on using that tactic but we can't use the canne tactic (if you mean the battle between Hanibal and the Romans at Cannae). Their force is to big to surround in battle, we would strech to thin and again run the risk of being separated in small groups.

[King Henry V]

As I said before, my Welsh history is not very good so what I will say now is nothing more than speculation and invention for the purposes of the story.
There are three Welsh principalities which have allied themselves with eachother and Robert of Gloucester. The price for such an alliance is so far unknown. Gwynedd is the strongest of the three, and often intervenes in the politics of Powys, on whose territory Dinas Bran stands. Mabel, daughter of Robert of Gloucester, is married to Ranulf, Earl of Chester, who is the mediator between his Welsh neighbours and Robert of Gloucester. Therefore, Gwynedd is the chief supporter of Robert and vice versa. The Prince of Powys is old, and has no children. The chief contenders for thr throne are his eldest nephew and a cousin of his. The cousin is seen as the most probable heir to the throne, as he is supported by Gwynedd and the most powerful lord in Powys (sorry, I still have to come up with the names for all these people!). However, the nephew is the most candidate of the majority of the people and lords of Powys itself. Dyfet is the most westerly principality, and is an ally of Gwynedd and has been an enemy of Powys for many years until a reluctant pact of friendship was brokered recently between the two princedoms by Gwynedd who acted as the mediator. There is still much antagonism and ill will between Powys and Dyfet.
The main part of the Welsh army are the levies of the three princedoms, i.e simple peasants who have been called upon to fight for their lord. They are armed with nothing more than a shield, a spear and a helmet, though some wear leather armour. Locked in a shield wall, they can offer quite some heavy resistance, but once it breaks they can be easily hunted down and butchered. They comprise half of the army. A third of it are mainly the raiders, lightly armed with sword, spears and most importantly, bows. They are effective light infantry, can give a fearsome charge, but are not relied upon to stand lengthy combat. The rest of the army is basically its backbone, the well armoured and discplined elite of Wales. Some will have mail, but many will be armoured in leather. They will fight in shield walls, but can last mcuh longer than the ordinary levies. Horsemen are few among the Welsh.
Hope this helps!

[Mr White]

start chaos and disorganistion in the midst of the Welsh and we stand a chance otherwise the troublesome reign of King Stephen ends here

[Ludens]

Thanks, King Henry.

AntiochusIII's plan sounds good, though I do not know if the rest of the army can get there in time to rescue Stephen. Is it going to be a nightly attempt or do you want people to see you are "fleeing"?

[Lord Winter]

I couldn't find the battle of Chansolorville so I can't comment on using that tactic but we can't use the canne tactic (if you mean the battle between Hanibal and the Romans at Cannae). Their force is to big to surround in battle, we would strech to thin and again run the risk of being separated in small groups.

I realized that a few hours latter. Chancollerville was a US cival war battle with a three way flanking maneuver which is also not going to work due to the fact that we cant carry out that much precession.
So I say it looks like we have a charge on one flank to make it look like we are trying to break through. Wait until the majority of there forces are turned towards the other way. Then hit them with every thing we have left on the other flank.

[AntiochusIII]

Thanks, King Henry.

AntiochusIII's plan sounds good, though I do not know if the rest of the army can get there in time to rescue Stephen. Is it going to be a nightly attempt or do you want people to see you are "fleeing"?

A night attempt sounds better. If I am the Welsh I would expect something was wrong if the king "broadcasted" his escape attempt.

My mind is going a little too far (blame it on Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel) and is thinking about two-tier trickery, i.e. pretend to launch a night attack as diversion, then (pretend to) break through (as if that night attack IS a real diversion for a real escape attempt), then actually launch a night attack when they are caught off-guard, but I suspect the enemy would be too simple-minded for that, and our troops might not be enough for all the operations involved.

[Lord Winter]

Remember the best plans are simple

[Ludens]

A night attempt sounds better. If I am the Welsh I would expect something was wrong if the king "broadcasted" his escape attempt.

Your plan has got mine and Mr. White's support, so this probably will be it. I am not sure if Destroyer of Hope agrees. However, we must time it well. If we are too fast, the second attack group will be surrounded as well, if we are too slow the first group will be annihilated. And there can be almost no communication between the two groups. I guess the first group should take a hornblower or something similar to call for the second group when the Welsh are showing up in force.

[King Henry V]

So the accepted plan is to create a diversion with some cavalry at night, wait until the Welsh fling themselves onto the horsemen, then launch the rest of the forces onto the rear?
There will also be about a hundred Welsh levy men near the entrance of the castle, to warn of any sortie. However, they by no means seal off the Dinas Bran and could be easily outflanked by some fast cavalry.
BTW, is this a full breakout attempt, or simply defeating the Welsh? If it is a breakout attempt, do you want the soldiers to be carrying the rest of the supplies, or should the food be kept ready in the carts to leave the castle as soon as possible?

[Ludens]

So the accepted plan is to create a diversion with some cavalry at night, wait until the Welsh fling themselves onto the horsemen, then launch the rest of the forces onto the rear?
There will also be about a hundred Welsh levy men near the entrance of the castle, to warn of any sortie. However, they by no means seal off the Dinas Bran and could be easily outflanked by some fast cavalry.
BTW, is this a full breakout attempt, or simply defeating the Welsh? If it is a breakout attempt, do you want the soldiers to be carrying the rest of the supplies, or should the food be kept ready in the carts to leave the castle as soon as possible?

I am not 100% sure on the battleplan, but the idea to defeat them, not to run off. If we run, they'll follow us and we are on their terrain. Also, the loss of prestige would be immense, and we cannot afford that. Every soldier should be made clear that an escape attempt is neither a military nor a political option. Here we stand, and here we fight.

[King Henry V]

BTW, after a bit of browsing on Wiki, I found out that Dyfet is not the name of the mediebal Welsh kingdom, it is Deheubarth. Gwynedd is ruled by Owain ap Gruffydd and his younger brother Cadwaladr, although Owain wields most of the power. Deheurbarth is ruled by Anarawd ap Gruffydd, son of Gruffydd ap Rhys who defeated the Normans with the help of Owain ap Gruffydd at the battle of Crug Mawr in 1136, after the death of Richard fitz Gilbert of Clare. The crushing victory of the Welsh over the Normans led to the loss of Ceredigion to Gwynnedd. The Prince of Powys is Madog ap Maredudd, his nephew is Owain Cyfeiliog and his cousin is Bleddyn.

[Lord Winter]

So the accepted plan is to create a diversion with some cavalry at night, wait until the Welsh fling themselves onto the horsemen, then launch the rest of the forces onto the rear?
There will also be about a hundred Welsh levy men near the entrance of the castle, to warn of any sortie. However, they by no means seal off the Dinas Bran and could be easily outflanked by some fast cavalry.
BTW, is this a full breakout attempt, or simply defeating the Welsh? If it is a breakout attempt, do you want the soldiers to be carrying the rest of the supplies, or should the food be kept ready in the carts to leave the castle as soon as possible?

basically that is our plan except throw some infantry in with the calvary so it looks like a realistic attack.

[Just A Girl]

basically that is our plan except throw some infantry in with the calvary so it looks like a realistic attack.

Ah yes. A very good plan,
But Dependant on the welsh not knowing whats about to happen.
May just work.....

"whistles"
*Backs up to the door*
*runs off to inform the welsh of the attack plan*

"CYMRU AM BYTH TWLL TIN POB SAIS!!! CYMRU AM BYTH!!!"

[Kraxis]

*Picks up a crossbow and shoots the traitor Just A Girl in the back, just like she deserves*

It is obvious that the battle can't be anything more than a sally to defeat the combined enemies.
We have been lured into a trap, at a place we hoped to trap the enemy ourselves. They know we will try something, thus simple plans will not work. We have to rely on unrealiable complicated plans to defeat the enemy. And this plan is just about as simple as we can get it. In the words of a famous American general: "Hold them by the nose and kick them in the balls!"

I fear though that we are wasting our cavalry. They are a precious comodity, the only true advantage we have over our enemies, They shold not be sacrificed. Their speed would be vital in gaining surprise when the enemies gather for repelling the sally.
But the choice has been made, and also, the 'king' can be very important in gathering enough of the enemy, and lastly the knights might very well be the only troops capable of holding on long enough.

But I would wish that most knight would hand over their horses to the better of the infantrymen and sally with the 'king' on foot, thus giving them stayingpower and giving the main body strikepower and speed.