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Thread: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

  1. #91
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraxis
    It is obvious that the battle can't be anything more than a sally to defeat the combined enemies.
    We have been lured into a trap, at a place we hoped to trap the enemy ourselves. They know we will try something, thus simple plans will not work. We have to rely on unrealiable complicated plans to defeat the enemy. And this plan is just about as simple as we can get it. In the words of a famous American general: "Hold them by the nose and kick them in the balls!"

    I fear though that we are wasting our cavalry. They are a precious comodity, the only true advantage we have over our enemies, They shold not be sacrificed. Their speed would be vital in gaining surprise when the enemies gather for repelling the sally.
    But the choice has been made, and also, the 'king' can be very important in gathering enough of the enemy, and lastly the knights might very well be the only troops capable of holding on long enough.

    But I would wish that most knight would hand over their horses to the better of the infantrymen and sally with the 'king' on foot, thus giving them stayingpower and giving the main body strikepower and speed.
    Good points. But remember that the Welsh won't know what is going on as it is night, so they will have to guess as well. We hope they'll think the King is escaping and send their all the get him (as it is unlikely they will be able to sort out their troops in short notice). Then the second force will hit them. Simple, but not so simple that they can anticipate it.

    I think the problem is everyone has his own ideas of how the sally should go. But I think we all agree the first group should be mounted to make it look like the King is trying to escape. This group should be able to fend of the enemy for quite some time, so it should consist of reliable men. However, I agree with Kraxis that we would waste our mobility if we sent all our knights with the first group, so perhaps it should consist of mounted quality-infanty? The second attack should have a least one or preferably two powerful cavalry units (one as reserve), if there are enough horses available.

    Oh, and who says the king should be in the first group? An impersonator would do just as well, no?
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  2. #92
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kraxis
    It is obvious that the battle can't be anything more than a sally to defeat the combined enemies.
    We have been lured into a trap, at a place we hoped to trap the enemy ourselves. They know we will try something, thus simple plans will not work. We have to rely on unrealiable complicated plans to defeat the enemy. And this plan is just about as simple as we can get it. In the words of a famous American general: "Hold them by the nose and kick them in the balls!"

    I fear though that we are wasting our cavalry. They are a precious comodity, the only true advantage we have over our enemies, They shold not be sacrificed. Their speed would be vital in gaining surprise when the enemies gather for repelling the sally.
    But the choice has been made, and also, the 'king' can be very important in gathering enough of the enemy, and lastly the knights might very well be the only troops capable of holding on long enough.

    But I would wish that most knight would hand over their horses to the better of the infantrymen and sally with the 'king' on foot, thus giving them stayingpower and giving the main body strikepower and speed.
    How about my earlier unreliable complicated plan? Nah...that won't work because we don't have enough forces to give enough weight to each part of the army. That's our problem...we can't split our forces to many tasks as they are outnumbered everywhere already.

    You've made great points about the need for the strength of our second wave. Indeed, your/Ludens' idea to replace some mounted quality infantry in place of knights in the first wave should compensate that quite comfortably.

    The real danger to our plans is not the Welsh, whom we'll fight no matter what anyway, but the traitorous knights -- they are the only ones with strength to challenge our own knights in a short space of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens
    Oh, and who says the king should be in the first group? An impersonator would do just as well, no?
    Exactly. That was what I was thinking when I said "dressing up some loyal barons." Stephen should not risk himself with the first wave, where the reaction to any enemy movements will be extremely limited. He'll be commanding the rest of the army from the inside, able to change plans -- should that be needed -- at notice, while the impersonator "attempt to escape." The more "nervous"/"unorganized"/"desperate" the first wave looks to the enemy, the more chance they will fall for our trickery.

    I also have this feeling that when, or if, Stephen ever gets back to his land again, there will be quite an upheaval. In this short space of time we face too many betrayals already...

    Kill'em all those dastardly traitorous barons!

  3. #93

    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens
    Oh, and who says the king should be in the first group? An impersonator would do just as well, no?
    Now who do we want to die?
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
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  4. #94
    " Hammer of the East" Member King Kurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Nobody has suggested luring the Welsh off with a flock of really attractive sheep!
    Like all the others, I think a well planned, simple attack, probably at night - takes out the Welsh bow advantage - is the best option. The english army knows it must win, while the Welsh way would be to melt away when things get tough. One strategem would be for some of the army to disguise them selves as Robert of Glouster's men to spread some dissension in the Welsh army. finally all the English army should wear a distinctive sign so they could tell who is who in the night battle. A strong, blow would rout the Welsh and we could reap revenge on Robert of Glouster's men.:
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  5. #95

    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Do we have a Estemation of when the Next thriling instalmet will be?
    I wanna see what happens next...

    "sorry if it seems like im rushing you, just curious"

  6. #96
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    The next installment should be written by Monday. Sorry for the delay, it's just that I got BI for Christmas.
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  7. #97
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Right, here some new (correct) information about Welsh armies during this time period. Sorry about the change, but before I didn't have the time to do any research.
    Unlike most countries in Europe at the time, the style and method of medieval Welsh warfare was not overly influenced by feudalism. The survival of earlier traditions of pre-Roman and early medieval Celtic culture in Wales was reflected in military terms - not least because the heavily armoured feudal horseman could not properly operate in the rough and hilly ground covering much of Wales.
    The Welsh armies which faced Anglo-Norman incursions were based around the individual princes' and chieftains' personal bodyguards (Teulu). The rest of the force would comprise of any local men over the age of 14; this service was seen as a privilege, as opposed to feudal militias who saw such service as an obligation. The only men over the age of 14 who were exempt from such service were those who were tenants on church lands. A prince could call out his host once a year, and they would only have to serve in campaigns outside of their principality for up to 6 weeks..




    The Teulu (literally meaning "family") were strongly armed and mounted retainers. They were armed as a feudal knight, in chainmail and helmet, and carrying a shield and lance. Early in this period, the Teulu may have used javelins instead of lances, just like their Norman counterparts.



    The men of north Wales were mostly spearmen (the best being from Merionethshire and Cynan), and those from south Wales were mainly archers (the best being from Gwent, who were "accustomed to war"). However, this does not mean that the north Welsh had no archers, or vice versa.

    The warriors were dressed in a linen shirt (often red) and linen drawers; they covered these with a woolen cloak hanging to their knees, which was sometimes described as being "thin". Several manuscripts depict Welsh warriors as having only one shoe and their other foot bare - this probably allowed them to keep a balance on hilly or rough terrain. Hair was worn short, and was shaped around the eyes and ears; moustaches were popular, but beards were not.

    As mentioned above, the main weapons were long spears and bows, but javelins were also used, as were maces, gisarmes, and axes. A circular shield was carried by the foot soldiers, decorated white, yellow, silver, or blue. The bow used by the Welsh was made of elm, and unlike the way in which the English later utilised it, Welsh bows were fired at close range, as an ambush weapon. During fighting at Abergavenny Castle, one arrow was recorded to have penetrated a horseman's mail covered leg, through his saddle, and into his horse far enough to kill it; another arrow was fired 4" into an oak door.


    As mentioned before, the Teulu consisted of better equipped horsemen, known individually as Uchelwr; these upper class warriors also favoured red tunics, and dressed for battle in a similar style to the English knights ("Marchogs"). Although armed with lances, early Uchelwr's probably threw javelins like their Marchog rivals. Heraldry was known from the late C12th onwards, and a good example of an early C13th Uchelwr can be seen on the seal of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth, shown at right.



    The tactics used by Welsh armies were formulated to suit the awkward terrain of Wales - this was often the main weapon against the invading English. Primarily, Welsh tactics consisted of ambushes and raids; success in war was measured by the amount of booty brought home. Giraldus Cambrensis notes that it was Welsh habit "to steal anything they can lay their hands on and to live on plunder, theft and robbery". Battle was preferred on marshy or broken ground, which favoured the Welsh's mobility over the clumsy, heavily armoured English knights. The initial onslaught was fierce, but if this did not break the enemy, the Welsh often lost heart. Their spirits were picked up by loud battle cries and war trumpets blowing (according to C12th sources).

    The initial charge was a headlong assault accompanied by thrown javelins; this could be followed up by feigned flight (a common tactic amongst lightly armed and agile troops to lead their enemy into a trap). At the Battle of Lincoln in 1141, it was recorded that "On the flank there was a great multitude of Welshmen, better provided with daring than with arms" - as with most Celts of the medieval period, the Welsh relied upon agility and cunning as opposed to armour.

    When this agility was forsaken, the Welsh were comprehensively beaten - at Orewin Bridge (1282) and Maes Moydog (1295), the Welsh stood in phalanxes of long spears, like the Scots, and were shot to pieces and charges by Edward I's combination of archers and horsemen.

    Although large Welsh forces were capable of besieging castles (ie Builth), the siege tactics employed were not those of a feudal army - the Welsh did not really make use of war engines or other standard medieval techniques of storming a castle. The Welsh relied on keeping the defenders inside their castle (by a strong display of force outside the walls), and preventing supplies getting into the castle - this effectively starved the defenders out. Edward I countered this tactic by placing his newly constructed castles along the coastline - to allow easy supply routes from the sea (the Welsh had no significant navy). In Madog's Revolt, Caernavon Castle was stormed, but in this assault the Welsh came across the rock cut ditch which defended the partially constructed castle.
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  8. #98
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    .

    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

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  9. #99
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Interesting. The most important lesson is that the Welsh rely on mobility to win. If they don't use their mobility, they tend to lose. It think this underlines the necessity of keeping a mobile reserve, but otherwise I see no need to alter our battleplan.
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  10. #100

    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Wasnt it customary for Bow men to wear 1 shoe And have the other for drawing a cross bow?

  11. #101

    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    `Seems it was not only the archers...
    Quote Originally Posted by [url
    http://heatherrosejones.com/welshfaqs/clothing.html[/url]
    What would a medieval Welsh archer wear?
    Question: I was wondering if anyone knew where I could find some pictures of 13th century armor for an archer? What sort of armor would a medieval Welsh archer wear?

    Answer: To the extent that there is any historical evidence, the answer seems to be "none". There is actually a drawing that is supposed to represent a Welsh archer in a 13th c. collection of English legal documents known as "Liber A". The figure wears a knee-length tunic with long sleeves, and a short cloak fastened in some way at the center front. Rather peculiarly, the figure wears only a single shoe (on the left foot) and shares this characteristic with the depiction of a Welsh spearman in the same manuscript. But there's no sign of armor or a helmet at all. (Nor in the depiction of the spearman, for that matter.)
    so I kinda answerd my own question....
    Sorry

  12. #102
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    How is this progressing? It has been a month since the last update, but I would still like to know how this is going to end.
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  13. #103
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    It's progressing well, so well in fact that I'm going to post it. This is not the full chapter, however I thought I should let my avid fans ( I know I'm getting awfully pretentious) get to read it at the earliest opportunity. The final piece should be ready by later tonight, or tomorrow morning.
    Sorry about the cliffhanger, but there's nothing like it to get people interested in the continuation. BTW, if you can, listen to the more dramatic

    The Battle of Dinas Bran.
    You give your decision to the council. You will attack the Welsh encampment a few hours before dawn the next day, making two feint attacks before committing the full body of your soldiers to the attack: the first party, composed of twenty knights and forty men-at-arms under the command of Lord fitz William, will make the first attack, whilst a second group of fifteen knights will masquerade as the royal bodyguard, led by a young knight who will have your coat of arms on his surcoat and pretend to be you. Seeing the “king” attempt to flee, this party will hopefully draw men away from the main encampment. Finally, you will lead the rest of your army to charge into the Welsh rear and drive them from the field. Fifty spearmen will be left behind to guard Dinas Bran from any attack. It is most certainly a risky gamble, but your options are limited. By tomorrow the fate of the realm will be played out in a rain sodden valley in Wales.
    The rest of the day your soldiers prepare for battle. Blades and spear points are honed and coats of mail are scrubbed clean of rust. You order the soldiers to eat heartily, as hungry men do not fight well.
    That night, you sleep fitfully, tossing and turning in the filthy straw. Should tomorrow see your defeat, Gloucester’s rebellion will probably spread throughout the country as men see that their king is broken. If you survive, that is.
    You awake after sleeping for a couple hours to find the army rising from their beds and dealing with the final preparations. You eat a quick breakfast of thin gruel and splash your face with some cold water. You scratch at the rough stubble of your fair beard: you haven’t shaven for several days.
    A servant helps you dress for battle. Beneath your mail haubergeon, you wear silk garments. Should the armour be pierced, the small scraps of silk will not infect the wound, unlike other fabrics. You strap your sword belt to your waist and tie the conical helmet around your head with two leather thongs. You mount the crumbling stone battlements and gaze at the dying embers of the Welsh camp fires that give a dull glow, illuminating the enemy positions.
    The Welsh camp straddles the two tracks that lead to England and to Northern Powys, effectively blocking off Dinas Bran. Robert of Gloucester and his followers are separated from the Welsh; they are camped across the Usk, probably guarding the rear from the eventuality of a relief column arriving from England, but also because the commanders are wary of drunken brawls breaking out between the two former enemies. You yourself remember grimly one of your campaigns in Normandy where Ypres’ Flemings had fought with your Norman vassals, leaving several men dead and souring relations between the mercenaries and the Normans for the duration of the campaign, ultimately resulting in its failure.
    Few of the Welsh actually have tents; only the Teulu, the household warriors and their lords have any kind of shelter. The rest, the poorly armed tribal levies and the border raiders have merely their woollen cloaks to shield them from the elements.
    The air is damp and cold; you hope the ground hasn’t been softened too much by the ubiquitous Welsh rain so that your heavy chargers will be bogged down in mud. One of your retainers scrambles up the rubble mound and informs you that the first two attack parties are ready and await your order to attack. You look to the east, to England, where the first traces of light are beginning to creep into the sky. Dawn is approaching.
    You nod your head. The first attack is about to begin.
    The heavy carts are pulled away from the gate and the two parties of soldiers file out of the castle silently. Faint wisps of cloud shroud the moon, dulling the little light it gives. Tonight will be a night of darkness, chaos and death. You normally dislike chaos. Everything should have its place, everything should be ordered. Tonight, you will have to make an exception. Chaos will make the Welsh peasants run. Chaos will be your advantage; chaos will be your weapon. Tonight chaos shall ride out of Dinas Bran and wreak destruction on the enemy.
    The two parties of soldiers edge down the steep slope slowly, mindful of the need for secrecy. If you are to be victorious this night, you will have to surprise the Welsh and kill as many of them as you can before they have a chance to resist.
    You go back down to the yard where the chaplain is giving a blessing to the assembled troops. The Host is a stale piece of black rye bread. Provisions are low. Hopefully you will find some food in the Welsh camp; otherwise your army will be wracked by hunger within a few days.
    It is time for you to make a speech. You usually dislike giving speeches, as you lack a witty tongue. However, if there has ever been a need for men to be invigorated and encouraged by their leader, it is now.
    “Soldiers! We have marched many days through this wild land to obtain what we seek. What we seek is vengeance. Vengeance for ourselves, vengeance for our families, vengeance for our land that has been brutally pillaged and destroyed by these savage barbarians! Now we have burned their land, we have plundered their homes; we have destroyed their crops. But the Welsh still remained like ghosts, ever escaping our grasp. Yet now they are here. Now is our chance to smash them, slaughter them, and ride them down until the field is nothing but a blood-swamped meadow! They are many and we are few. But what resistance can two and a half thousand donkeys give to a thousand lions? This shall see our victory, and the Welsh will ne’er dare set foot on English soil before Judgment Day!”
    Despite the orders for silence you had given before, a few men still cheer and some bang their shields in approval.
    And down in the valley below, a horn blows.

    The army marches out of the castle, leaving only the small garrison behind to protect the rest of the supplies, you baggage and the handful of non-combatants who accompany the army, such as your chaplain, personal physician and the siege engineer and his retinue.
    Once the army is outside Dinas Bran’s ramparts and in the cover of the woods, you deploy them for battle. You command the centre battle or division, with your bodyguards, de Redvers turncoats and half of all the spearmen and men-at-arms. Robert Beaumont, who leads a quarter of the foot soldiers and two thirds of the knights, commands the right flank, whilst Gilbert of Clare commands you left flank with nearly all of the remaining infantry and cavalry, including Lord de Rougehavre’s horsemen. Your archers and crossbowmen are deployed directly behind your battle and they have orders to pick off any targets that may present themselves, not shoot blindly into a mass of indistinguishable men. Finally, Baldwin of Clare, brother to Lord Gilbert, leads a small rearguard composed of the volunteers from Exeter, some Marcher soldiers and twenty men-at-arms.
    You give the order to advance. From your vantage point on top of your charger, you can vaguely observe the events in the valley by the dim lit of the moon and the campfires.
    The Welsh army has engaged your two diversionary parties, who are almost surrounded but seem to be holding well. Most importantly, however, is that the Welsh are strung out and have their backs turned to you. You can see no visible activity across the river where Robert of Gloucester is encamped. Now is the time to strike.
    Your battles advance down the dew sodden hill slowly. Some lose their footing on the treacherous incline, but the slope soon begins to even out and the pace quickens.
    The din of the fight becomes louder and louder and you order a halt to your troops. You slide your sword out of your scabbard and raise it.
    “Charge!”
    You slash it down in the air, spur your horse on and thunder ahead of your line. Your army follows into battle. And the slaughter commences.

    The Welsh are taken off guard as the army smashes into the rear and only the bravest stand and fight. The rest, seeing hundreds of men appear out of the darkness, run. Your sword soon becomes red with blood as you gallop among the broken levy spearmen, cutting them down like rabbits.
    You whoop for joy as you slash and thrust from your saddle. It is the warrior’s joy of battle, an emotion you haven’t felt since fighting in Normandy under your uncle, the late King Henry all those years ago.
    You reign in your horse to observe what is happening elsewhere on the field. The main body of the army is still about a hundred paces behind you, de Rougehavre’s horsemen are pursuing the Welsh while the two diversionary parties have now become part of the main army rather than isolated pockets of resistance.
    However, the pursuit slows down and finally halts as the levy is rallied and locks into a firm shield wall. You throw yourself onto the wall several times, but to no avail. The Welsh levy men remain firm.
    As you attempt to smash through their shield wall, the long line of spearmen bends and buckles, until its flanks overlap your own and you suddenly find yourself on the defensive. And then, out of the black night, you see that things are turning horribly wrong.
    The teulu, the mailed and fearsome household troops of the Welsh princes and lords, charge into your side and kill many of your soldiers as they take them by surprise. You twist around in your saddle and you are able to glimpse the shimmering light of Gloucester’s men who are assembling and who will soon attack. If there is any hope of victory on this eve, you must smash the Welsh before Robert of Gloucester commits his heavy infantry and cavalry to the battle and ensures your defeat.
    Your forces facing the river are pinned down, so you order Baldwin of Clare’s rearguard to follow you in out flanking the teulu. It is only a tiny force, but perhaps if it can charge into the teulu’s rear and rout them, then the rest of the Welsh will follow suit and break.
    “One final push and we shall destroy them!” you promise your soldiers. One final push.
    And then you hear the screams. The terrible, blood curdling war cries of the Welsh behind you. You see the Welsh raiders charge towards you as they utter their ululating screams, mad with battle rage. They loose a volley of arrows and javelins that slam into your ranks, felling dozens of men. You give a cry of pain as an arrow slices past your face, gashing it and the blood spills down into your beard. You soldiers make their own hasty shield wall and prepare to receive the hundreds of lightly armed warriors flinging themselves into the bloody chaos of battle.
    You dismount from your horse and push yourself into the front rank. You cut down an axeman before thrusting your blade up into another Welshman’s chest. You duck as an enemy swings his sword at you and knocks your helmet off. You rise and ram your sword into his face before he has a chance to bring his own blade back to parry.
    You fight like a demon and around you a pile of corpses rises as yet more warriors step into try and kill this richly armoured knight. You lose count of the number of enemies you have slain and wonder if there will ever be an end to the ranks of soldiers who constantly throw themselves at your ranks.
    The briefest of lulls in the fighting gives you a chance to quickly turn round to see where Gloucester’s rebels are. They are slowly wading through the ford across the rain-swollen river and soon they will be ready to land the fatal blow that will see the death of your army.
    Seeing your moment of inattention, a great burly warrior jumps forward and lunges his spear at your breast. You notice it only at the last moment and quickly twist away from the tip. The lunge misses you, however you lose balance, slip on the dew-wet grass and fall to the ground. The Welshman gives a cry of triumph as he stabs his spear down at your stomach. Unable to move your shield to stop the spear, you wait for the fatal blow. It does not come.
    You finally manage to twist round and you see that the warrior’s cry of triumph has been replaced by a horrible gurgling noise as he falls to the ground, an axe buried in his thick throat.
    You turn to see it is Baldwin of Clare who saved you and give him a swift nod of your head in thanks before quickly parrying another sword blow and despatching its owner to the realms of Death.
    You know that soon the rebels will join the fight and destroy you, so you step up the pace, determined to take as many enemies with you. If you are to die, you will die with honour, with a sword in your hand and with slain enemies at your feet.
    And then you hear the high-pitched sound of a horn blowing. And you are sure at that moment that all is lost.
    But when you see who appears from the tree line, you know then that you are wrong. For victory will be possible after all.
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  14. #104
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    .
    The riders of Rohan!
    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  15. #105
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Actually, funnily enough I just love listening to the soundtrack of LOTR when writing.
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    "We were not born into this world to be happy, but to do our duty." Bismarck
    "You can't be a successful Dictator and design women's underclothing. One or the other. Not both." The Right Hon. Bertram Wilberforce Wooster
    "Man, being reasonable, must get drunk; the best of life is but intoxication" - Lord Byron
    "Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes, or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison." - C. S. Lewis

  16. #106
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    .
    Yeah! Yur story turned out to be much like The Battle of Pelennor Fields, without the Nazgûl. (That's a compiment. )


    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  17. #107
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    However, I must stipulate that I have never read LOTR (well I tried once but didn't get past page twenty). This is entirely my own story!
    www.thechap.net
    "We were not born into this world to be happy, but to do our duty." Bismarck
    "You can't be a successful Dictator and design women's underclothing. One or the other. Not both." The Right Hon. Bertram Wilberforce Wooster
    "Man, being reasonable, must get drunk; the best of life is but intoxication" - Lord Byron
    "Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes, or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison." - C. S. Lewis

  18. #108
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre
    .
    The riders of Rohan!
    .
    May the Valars be blessed! Looks like Theoden somehow comes to save our king! Hopefully with all the six thousand riders of Rohan...

    Awesome episode, King Henry! I can't wait to see how it will end (and who arrives). I still miss Vykke's Byzantines (what better game than the restoration of such an empire? ) and I was fearing that yours would be of the same fate. It is not and I am glad.

  19. #109
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    However, I must stipulate that I have never read LOTR (well I tried once but didn't get past page twenty). This is entirely my own story!
    .
    Then you're plagiarizing whence Tolkien did!
    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  20. #110
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    .
    Excuse my dumbness but...wasn't there supposed to be a faint attack, then a fake king fleeing and even then the final sally? I culdn't follow that in the scene; was bust trying to cover Stephen's aß...
    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  21. #111
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    There was the fake king in the diversion, but the Welsh (being lightly armoured and many of them) did manage to catch him and surround him, which was why they were strung out. I repeat I have not copied Tolkien, I have never read Tolkien! The tactics were yours, but I simply could not let Stepehn win easily for dramatic effect. OTOH, to kill old Stepehn off would be a bit of a let down, so he has to be rescued.
    www.thechap.net
    "We were not born into this world to be happy, but to do our duty." Bismarck
    "You can't be a successful Dictator and design women's underclothing. One or the other. Not both." The Right Hon. Bertram Wilberforce Wooster
    "Man, being reasonable, must get drunk; the best of life is but intoxication" - Lord Byron
    "Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes, or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison." - C. S. Lewis

  22. #112
    EB Token Radical Member QwertyMIDX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    I would like an anticlimatic ending.
    History is for the future not the past. The dead don't read.


    Operam et vitam do Europae Barbarorum.

    History does not repeat itself. The historians repeat one another. - Max Beerbohm

  23. #113

    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    don't be afraid to kill him off if you think we deserve it
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
    -Stephen Crane

  24. #114
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    OK, do you want him to die of septimcaemia from his wound?
    www.thechap.net
    "We were not born into this world to be happy, but to do our duty." Bismarck
    "You can't be a successful Dictator and design women's underclothing. One or the other. Not both." The Right Hon. Bertram Wilberforce Wooster
    "Man, being reasonable, must get drunk; the best of life is but intoxication" - Lord Byron
    "Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes, or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison." - C. S. Lewis

  25. #115
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    OK, do you want him to die of septimcaemia from his wound?
    That's like, super anti-climactic. It would be hilarious (albeit a letdown) if Stephen wins this battle so completely that not a single Welshman survives the day, then die of a small wound's infection.

  26. #116
    EB Token Radical Member QwertyMIDX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    OK, do you want him to die of septimcaemia from his wound?
    Sure, or maybe falling off his horse while returning to England from Wales.
    History is for the future not the past. The dead don't read.


    Operam et vitam do Europae Barbarorum.

    History does not repeat itself. The historians repeat one another. - Max Beerbohm

  27. #117
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Well, if that's the case, I'll drop this. I know when I'm not wanted!
    www.thechap.net
    "We were not born into this world to be happy, but to do our duty." Bismarck
    "You can't be a successful Dictator and design women's underclothing. One or the other. Not both." The Right Hon. Bertram Wilberforce Wooster
    "Man, being reasonable, must get drunk; the best of life is but intoxication" - Lord Byron
    "Where men are forbidden to honour a king they honour millionaires, athletes, or film-stars instead: even famous prostitutes or gangsters. For spiritual nature, like bodily nature, will be served; deny it food and it will gobble poison." - C. S. Lewis

  28. #118
    Urwendur Ûrîbêl Senior Member Mouzafphaerre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    I repeat I have not copied Tolkien, I have never read Tolkien!
    Stop denying! I caught you! I even saw you copying line by line from the original manuscript! Your mask is blown! Wait a minute... I know this face! You...you...you ARE Tolkien! You're out to get me!
    .
    Ja mata Tosa Inu-sama, Hore Tore, Adrian II, Sigurd, Fragony

    Mouzafphaerre is known elsewhere as Urwendil/Urwendur/Kibilturg...
    .

  29. #119
    Member Member Flavius Clemens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    but I simply could not let Stepehn win easily for dramatic effect.
    Dramatic effect? Bit of an understatement there... You know how to hold our attention!
    Non me rogare, loquare non lingua latinus

  30. #120
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Alternate history: the Anarchy of King Stephen.

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    There was the fake king in the diversion, but the Welsh (being lightly armoured and many of them) did manage to catch him and surround him, which was why they were strung out. I repeat I have not copied Tolkien, I have never read Tolkien! The tactics were yours, but I simply could not let Stepehn win easily for dramatic effect. OTOH, to kill old Stepehn off would be a bit of a let down, so he has to be rescued.
    If he loses this battle it is pretty much game-over anyway. In that case I'd rather have him die gloriously.
    Last edited by Ludens; 01-29-2006 at 17:31.
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