"Settlement Besieged" -- what do you do?

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 11-30-2005, 05:23

A Quiz on tactics -- comments appreciated.

**Kekvit Irae** · 11-30-2005, 05:32

Fighting on the walls is a much safer tactic than sallying forth. Letting them come at you one at a time is much better than having to rearrange your troops once you get out of the gates. Fighting in the streets means you were too stupid or too unlucky to defend the walls.

**Krauser** · 11-30-2005, 07:10

I wait for a relief force if there is one nearby otherwise I wait on the walls.

**Red Harvest** · 11-30-2005, 07:12

The AI is so inept with missile troops that I always sally. I always keep a missile unit or two around and start the war of attrition immediately, because I can't win the melee fight in most of these. In 95+% of sallies, even against much larger AI armies, the AI will try to turn away and set up farther from the city. The AI army is very vulnerable when it does this, so I rush archers/slingers out and close, which allows them to fire into the rear of withdrawing heavy infantry. A cav unit or two can also be used to make units rout or pick them off if they break.

I send out some light cav or family member in support of the missile units, so that I can successfully withdraw the missile units if things get hairy. I will also use any cav I have to chase down onagers and such, since they move too slow and get left behind before the AI has reset.

I usually have some spears available, and I will use these as a stop gap against cav attacks. I can actually tear up the enemy cav pretty well this way, since it tends to come in piecemeal.

Typical sally for me would be 2 slingers (or archers/horse archers combo), 1 or 2 units of spears, or moderate infantry, 1 family member, maybe 1 or 2 cav/mounted javs (if I didn't have hrose archers for missile troops--if I did then I probably wouldn't have any foot archers or foot slingers.) Typical force size is about 5-6 units total, often facing 15+.

Assuming a large enemy force, with my missile units and opportunistic cav attacks I seek to kill off at least 2 and usually 4 enemy units in my first major sally. Then, when I run out of ammo, I go back inside and take the draw. On the next turn I do the same--and if I have a bit of luck I can win on the 2nd sally. If I haven't got enough edge left to win the melee on VH/VH, I will instead withdraw again to take the draw. By the 3rd turn I am always am in position to win in the sally (or in defense if the enemy assaults.)

Rarely some major blunder will happen and I lose a sally. If I don't have enough missile units to win in time, I'll send in some relief units to produce a successful sally.

**GreatEmperor** · 11-30-2005, 08:23

I just wait until the attack me, and then fight on/behind the walls or I position my army in the streets.
If they wait till starvation, I'll sally the 2nd last turn and the last if I lost the previous battle.

**Somebody Else** · 11-30-2005, 09:20

I'll saunter out if it looks like I can get a few easy kills without any losses, but generally I'll wait for them to assault - it's nice and easy to clobber them on the walls, or funnel them into nasty little deathtraps in the streets. Sometimes a relief force is handy - then I'll sent that in.

All depends on the situation.

**Magraev** · 11-30-2005, 10:12

With phalanxes nothing is sweeter than a street-fight.

If I have good odds I'll sally quickly rather than being starved out. Usually I wait and see if the AI builds some siege-equipment and thus is going to assault. Otherwise I'll sally immediately - ideally with some outside aid.

**Tyrac** · 12-01-2005, 14:19

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

The AI is so inept with missile troops that I always sally. I always keep a missile unit or two around and start the war of attrition immediately, because I can't win the melee fight in most of these. In 95+% of sallies, even against much larger AI armies, the AI will try to turn away and set up farther from the city. The AI army is very vulnerable when it does this, so I rush archers/slingers out and close, which allows them to fire into the rear of withdrawing heavy infantry. A cav unit or two can also be used to make units rout or pick them off if they break.

I send out some light cav or family member in support of the missile units, so that I can successfully withdraw the missile units if things get hairy. I will also use any cav I have to chase down onagers and such, since they move too slow and get left behind before the AI has reset.

I usually have some spears available, and I will use these as a stop gap against cav attacks. I can actually tear up the enemy cav pretty well this way, since it tends to come in piecemeal.

Typical force size is about 5-6 units total, often facing 15+.

Assuming a large enemy force, with my missile units and opportunistic cav attacks I seek to kill off at least 2 and usually 4 enemy units in my first major sally. Then, when I run out of ammo, I go back inside and take the draw. On the next turn I do the same--and if I have a bit of luck I can win on the 2nd sally. If I haven't got enough edge left to win the melee on VH/VH, I will instead withdraw again to take the draw. By the 3rd turn I am always am in position to win in the sally (or in defense if the enemy assaults.)

Rarely some major blunder will happen and I lose a sally. If I don't have enough missile units to win in time, I'll send in some relief units to produce a successful sally.

I just cut and pasted this rather then just write it again in my own words. :)

**Just A Girl** · 12-01-2005, 14:29

It depends on the seige equipment they have,
If the have tebushays and magonels and stuff, Then Sally out and attack them is what id say,

if they have ladders and battering rams,
Id say fight them on the walls,

But Usualy il try to send men down to eliviate the seige.

There wasnt an option that i would feel comfortable voting for,
So i abstained

**Kekvit Irae** · 12-01-2005, 14:37

Originally Posted by Just A Girl

It depends on the seige equipment they have,
If the have tebushays and magonels and stuff, Then Sally out and attack them is what id say,

if they have ladders and battering rams,
Id say fight them on the walls,

But Usualy il try to send men down to eliviate the seige.

There wasnt an option that i would feel comfortable voting for,
So i abstained

The problem is, I have yet to see the AI build any long-range siege weapons. I guess it's different in multiplayer

**gardibolt** · 12-01-2005, 18:24

Sallies would work much better if cavalry would go back into the city when you tell them to; this business of lining up to go through the gate, sending them into the arms of the enemy, is suicidal. Because of this behavior, I seldom can afford to make more than one sally.

**Rilder** · 12-05-2005, 06:30

lets see, If i got phalanxes even low moral militias set up on the crucial points near the town center, man i remeber in my seclucid campaign defending off 5 or 6 FULLY stacked armies with nothing but 3 or 4 militia hoplite units, needless to say my general became a legend in short time

if i got stone walls and good infantry on the walls, if i can hold off the initial drop off of the seige tower door dropping then i've won already, if i have good infantry and wood walls then set up around the breaces if i have enough if not, defend the center....

welll needless to say i prefer phalanxes in my garisons

**Kickius Buttius** · 12-12-2005, 20:55

Very situational, as others have pointed out.

I would say that most often I bribe the offending army out of existence. I keep a diplomat within two turns of every city that I own and try to keep at least 10,000 denarii on hand at all times. I play on h/h or vh/h, so this isn't always possible, but most of the time I am able to do so.

Failing bribery, my preferred method would be to send a relief force. I think the AI makes defending the city too easy.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 11-30-2005, 14:14

.
Depends:

If there's a relief force at most two turns away and the odds ―according to my observations, not the AI's calculations― are obviously against me, I rush the relief force and play a double penetration battle.
If the assaulting AI army has infantry units and a have one or two foor missile and two or more decent infantry units, I know that they will assault the next turn; kill them off on the walls. If I have light or missile cav, I also make mini-sallies from the backdoors (in case of besieging reinforcements) and decimate their often weak infantry.
If I'm behind wooden walls or lower, I sally no matter what. Even if I lost, I would take half or more of the besiegers with me to Valhalla.

.

**Ciaran** · 11-30-2005, 14:24

Can a city be starved out in RTW in the first place? Whenever I try to do that, the AI always sallies forth in the last turn.
So far, I always had relief forces close enough, so I can´t recall being starved out. I haven´t seen many battles on the defender´s side, as well.

**Magraev** · 11-30-2005, 14:33

The AI sometimes surrenders without a fight when severely outclassed/outnumbered.

In my oppinion they should always sally - for no other reason than to take some of my troops with them when they go.

**Mouzafphaerre** · 11-30-2005, 15:10

Originally Posted by Ciaran

Can a city be starved out in RTW in the first place? Whenever I try to do that, the AI always sallies forth in the last turn.
So far, I always had relief forces close enough, so I can´t recall being starved out. I haven´t seen many battles on the defender´s side, as well.

.
In my recent Hun (BI) campaign I've noticed that Romans always prefer an honourable starvation while rebels always sally with their petty peasants and get grinded down.

.

**Slicendice** · 11-30-2005, 15:49

I always sally. Especially if I have some good cavalry in the city.

I keep a unit or two of peasants in every city so usually sallying is not a good option.

Honestly though the AI is still crap. They seige and then leave the city alone and then they come back and seige it again. I am so disappointed with the AI. But that's another thread.

My cavalry rushes out when the enemy is repositioning. (just like another poster said)

Archers provide support.

Sometimes the enemy will chase my general around the city getting cut up by my archers and towers. Haven't seen that in BI yet.

I've defeated an army of thousands with just 1 general. Took a couple turns but I did it. All you really need to do is kill their infantry and then their cavalry will leave.

**Somebody Else** · 11-30-2005, 16:10

Generally, as long as I have a halfway decent force within a city, I'm quite happy to let them try and assault me. Even if they do succeed in capturing the place, I can usually inflict such a mauling that I can waltz in the next turn or so and relieve the AI of their new settlement.

For example, taking Londinium off the WRE in BI, the Romano-British when they pop up go straight for it. Playing as the Saxons recently, 6 basic infantry units, 4 archers and 3 peasants were enough to inflict ~80% casualties on the full stack that popped up, allowing my Eburacum garrison to come in and win the place back without any problems. (Stone walls)

Also, fighting in the streets - any size settlement - effectively negates most of the advantage from numbers - was able to completely destroy a 3 quarter stack Roman army (several comitatenses, limitanei, archers, etc. oh, and a 6 star general) with 2 units of spearmen and a 3 star faction leader. (Stockade)

Basically - cities are deathtraps for assaulting armies, so let them die.

**Prodigal** · 11-30-2005, 16:48

That's not a single answer question. If heavily outnumbered & have no relief force available sit & wait to defend. If the numbers are against me but I have a decent force & there's no relief, sally & do as much damage as possible with as little loss as possible, this has two results, you either get them to run, or at least do them some damage too. If I'm even close to their numbers, chase & destroy their army, then head straight for their nearest city; this has two benefits, you get you're own back & the follow up stacks they've probably got coming towards you, are fought on their land rather than yours.

**dismal** · 11-30-2005, 18:21

I almost always sally out immediately.

This is because I almost alwasy garrison at least 4-5 archers and a couple spears in a border city, and can use this army to beat (or at least inflict pretty severe damage on in a "draw") most of what the AI brings.

If I don't have enough defenders (in relation to the attackers) I'll try to get a relief force there. I'll try to position them on the opposite side of the city from the besiegers, which allows me to get them inside the walls and then use my sally out tactics.

Actually defending a siege I almost never do, and if I do it's usually because I was so undermanned I couldn't sally out so it's an inevitable defeat.

**Slyspy** · 12-01-2005, 19:06

I wait until the AI loses interest and wanders off. Failing that I hit the attackers with the nearest decent army stack I have safe in the knowledge that the AI will not have a competent general in charge nor a great variety of troops.

**TinCow** · 12-02-2005, 11:15

A good thing you've made this a multi-choice poll. I picked the ones that generally apply to me: sally when under 2:1, wait for assault, fight on walls, fight in streets.

I really depends on the situation. I'll sally only if I know for sure that I will win or if it's a critical moment. For instance, if I don't do it now another stack will arrive to reinforce next turn making it impossible or if I'm on a tight budget and a long siege would put me into the red. Otherwise I wait and fight when they assault.

Whether I fight on the walls or in the streets depends on MANY factors including (1) the composition of my army (2) the composition of the enemy army (3) the type of wall (wooden or stone) (4) the layout of the city (barbarian towns are harder to defend in the streets) (5) whether I have reinforcements arriving from outside the walls and many other minor things. I will always sally on the last turn or when it becomes obvious that they will not assault (not building siege equipment or all-cav army).