Death Row, Van Nguyen

[yesdachi]

you don't show value for life by killing people over something so small as drugs. That is holding the value of life too low. A human life is more importtant than some drugs.

Not directly focused at you Efrem but this BS liberal attitude is more destructive than a nuclear bomb! Nruyen is a piece of crap drug trafficker who was stupid enough to break a law that he knew had a death penalty punishment. He should be burned on a steak with a big sign next to it that says, “Drug traffickers stay the hell out!”

Human life is valuable, that’s why it needs to be protected from the evils that are out there. Do you invite the wolf that just ate all your chickens into your house and give it a hug and tell it not to do it again? NO, you shoot the mother f’er and save your family from having their faces chewed off. Singapore’s laws are harsh but I’ll bet they wont have as much drug trafficking problems in the future. The despicable part is that Nguyen and others like him and worse break laws that force the good people of the world to follow thru with punishments that shouldn’t have to be used. Screw them, IMO they deserve the punishments they get.

The death penalty is bad, war against terrorists is wrong, drugs are ok, we shouldn’t say merry Christmas, wal-mart is the devil, suicide bombers just want an escape from the pain, and gay marriage is ok! I feel like I just woke up in the twilight zone. Stick a fork in me… I’m done!

[Kanamori]

Human life is valuable, that’s why it needs to be protected from the evils that are out there.

In trafficking drugs, he did not harm another human. His actions may have enabled people to harm themselves, but he is not the force killing someone who OD's. Since he is not directly the force killing them, the action the government did to him is disproportionate, and greater, to the action he did to society.

[yesdachi]

In trafficking drugs, he did not harm another human. His actions may have enabled people to harm themselves, but he is not the force killing someone who OD's. Since he is not directly the force killing them, the action the government did to him is disproportionate, and greater, to the action he did to society.

Oh, I admit that the penalty is harsh but it is what it is. People could lobby to have it changed (I love my democracy but Singapore is a different ball game) but for now it is what it is and IMO it is harsh but just. Someone doesn’t need to kill to be worthy of the death penalty, they just need to be an evil. With the situation in Singapore it is just like seeing a giant sign on an electric wire that says “Danger you will die if you touch this wire” then having someone touch it and complain that they are dead. Don’t touch the wire, don’t traffic drugs, and don’t force good people to enforce deadly punishments.

[Tachikaze]

Nruyen [sic] is a piece of crap drug trafficker who was stupid enough to break a law that he knew had a death penalty punishment. He should be burned on a steak with a big sign next to it that says, “Drug traffickers stay the hell out!”

Human life is valuable

This is why I'm so anti-conservative.

While I agree he seemingly made a stupid mistake (I don't don't know all the details and neither does Yesdachi), his life is valuable. Did he receive a trial with due process? Were his rights acknowledged? I thought Americans cared about these rights.

In my opinion, Yesdachi does not always consider human life valuable.

[bmolsson]

I think that it should be mentioned that the ASEAN countries where under heavy pressure 40 years ago due to all the drugs coming from the area. The golden triangle was filled with warlords that lived of drug trafficking and had political powers. The imposement of hefty penalties was due to weak law enforcement so a statement needed to be made. Even if I am against the death penalty, it worked and most offenders these days comes from countries like Australia, where you don't feel the fear.
In Asia a human life is worth much less than we are used to. It's sad, but reality.....

[InsaneApache]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1848092.stm

Nice try, but there was recently a Police investigation into this as there was more than a suspicion of foul play. The family suspect that she was 'offed' because she was going to spill the beans on her junkie mates and suppliers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Stor...275540,00.html

Looks very iffy to me at least.

[Lechev]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1848092.stm

Nice try, but there was recently a Police investigation into this as there was more than a suspicion of foul play. The family suspect that she was 'offed' because she was going to spill the beans on her junkie mates and suppliers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/drugs/Stor...275540,00.html

Looks very iffy to me at least.

Related crime that still points to the same issue---> drugs. Thanks for the link, it give further support to why such deterant should be in place to deal with drug trafficking

[Papewaio]

Its not the death sentence that makes Singapore a nice society. After all all the surrounding countries have the death sentence.

The good standard of living in Singapore is due to its economy. Strong economy, based on knowledge skills leading to a well educated wealthy society. Compare that with other local economies that rely on oil wealth or minerals... those societies don't need knowledge and don't have a middle class as a result because they rely on primary goods and being sweatshops.

[Shaka_Khan]

Of 20 countries in Asia, only four nations -- Bhutan, Cambodia, Nepal and East Timor -- have abolished the death penalty, according to a 2005 U.N. report on capital punishment.

Three other nations -- Sri Lanka, Laos and Myanmar -- still subscribe to the death penalty, but have not carried out executions in more than 10 years.

Asia's 'grim view on drug crime'

[bmolsson]

Strong economy, based on knowledge skills leading to a well educated wealthy society. Compare that with other local economies that rely on oil wealth or minerals... those societies don't need knowledge and don't have a middle class as a result because they rely on primary goods and being sweatshops.

Singapore lives of it's airport, harbor and banking systems. All these parts are providing services to the countries around. Trade is made through Singapore since it's so easy to smuggle goods from there and the banks keeps all the corruption money with high secrecy. The threat against Singpore is that one day will the nations around get their act together and not need Singapore anymore......

[Adrian II]

The golden triangle was filled with warlords that lived of drug trafficking and had political powers. The imposement of hefty penalties was due to weak law enforcement so a statement needed to be made.

I think it has much more to do with the nature of tribal society where the individual is subordinate to the clan, tribe or nation. In Asia, this demand of subordination is reinforced by totalitarian leaders and by strong remnants of confucianism in a number of East-Asian countries. Individual pleasures divert the individual's attention and activity away from the group/tribe/wider society.
Secondly, totalitarian societies try to eradicate drugs because they are stimulants of the human imagination and as such subvert the hold of the thought police over society.
And thirdly, drug traffic usually fosters rival centers of power and corruption that obstruct the official power and corruption rackets run by the powers that be (for instance in Thailand or Pakistan).

[bmolsson]

I think it has much more to do with the nature of tribal society where the individual is subordinate to the clan, tribe or nation. In Asia, this demand of subordination is reinforced by totalitarian leaders and by strong remnants of confucianism in a number of East-Asian countries. Individual pleasures divert the individual's attention and activity away from the group/tribe/wider society.
Secondly, totalitarian societies try to eradicate drugs because they are stimulants of the human imagination and as such subvert the hold of the thought police over society.
And thirdly, drug traffic usually fosters rival centers of power and corruption that obstruct the official power and corruption rackets run by the powers that be (for instance in Thailand or Pakistan).

1. It might even be so easy that they are so many....

2. That would explain the US drug policy....

3. As in point 2....

[yesdachi]

This is why I'm so anti-conservative.

While I agree he seemingly made a stupid mistake (I don't don't know all the details and neither does Yesdachi), his life is valuable. Did he receive a trial with due process? Were his rights acknowledged? I thought Americans cared about these rights.

In my opinion, Yesdachi does not always consider human life valuable.

He didn’t make a “stupid mistake” he intentionally broke the law. He was caught with almost 400 grams of heroin*, more than 26,000 doses! That’s not a mistake; a mistake is having a pair of nail clippers in your travel bag, not taping a bag of H on your back and trying to sneak thru security! You can’t even admit he committed a crime, you have to say he made a mistake. That’s why I’m so anti-liberal (edit anti –liberal on crime and punishment. I am rather liberal on other topics.). Why try to sugar coat his actions and stand up for him when you know he is a criminal? Everyone should be mad at him for forcing Singapore’s hand. Mistake… pffft.

As best as I can tell from what I have read, he did receive a fair trial with plenty of time for investigating and extradition attempts as he was arrested in December of 2002.

As to my value of human life, it is practically the most valuable thing there is, but, and you knew there would be a but, IMO there is a line that people can cross where they change from humans to monsters who cant separate what’s good from what’s bad, they let greed, rage and self gratification overtake the parts that make them human. These are the people that I don’t care for at all. The murders, rapists, molesters, and hardcore drug dealers/traffickers lives have no value to me whatsoever.

Edit to add anti –liberal on crime and punishment.

*All you need is 15 grams to merit a death penalty in Singapore.

[Kanamori]

Why try to sugar coat his actions and stand up for him when you know he is a criminal? Everyone should be mad at him for forcing Singapore’s hand.

Similarly, if there is a law against being Jewish, it is a Jew's fault for breaking that law. That line of reasoning seems silly to me.

And still, you're telling me that moving 400g of heroin is equal to, or bigger than, killing an innoncent? Any punishment that is greater than the action committed is inherently unjust. It has nothing to do with how the punishment was carried out, in this case, or with how it was applied. There is no way a reasonable person can say that moving 26,000 doses of heroin, in itself, is equivilant to killing an innocent.

[doc_bean]

Similarly, if there is a law against being Jewish, it is a Jew's fault for breaking that law. That line of reasoning seems silly to me.

You can't help being jewish though, you can stop being a drug trafficer.

Any punishment that is greater than the action committed is inherently unjust.

He should take 400grams of heroin then...

[yesdachi]

Similarly, if there is a law against being Jewish, it is a Jew's fault for breaking that law. That line of reasoning seems silly to me.

And still, you're telling me that moving 400g of heroin is equal to, or bigger than, killing an innoncent? Any punishment that is greater than the action committed is inherently unjust. It has nothing to do with how the punishment was carried out, in this case, or with how it was applied. There is no way a reasonable person can say that moving 26,000 doses of heroin, in itself, is equivilant to killing an innocent.

Being Jewish isn’t really a choice, well I guess it could be if you decided to become Jewish but for the most part it isn’t but trafficking drugs is. He made a conscience, thought-out decision to break the law. Your comparison doesn’t make sense to me.

Although not as violent as murder, I think that drug trafficking is every bit as criminal and the punishment could be the same. Hardcore drugs like heroin are very destructive drugs that lead to addiction and the corruption of good people. I would almost consider a distributor/trafficker of hardcore drugs in the same way I view someone distributing/trafficking small pox or anthrax. I think I am a reasonable person, perhaps it’s just a matter of perspective.


Pretty funny doc_bean, about taking 400 grams of H!

[doc_bean]

Although not as violent as murder, I think that drug trafficking is every bit as criminal and the punishment could be the same. Hardcore drugs like heroin are very destructive drugs that lead to addiction and the corruption of good people. I would almost consider a distributor/trafficker of hardcore drugs in the same way I view someone distributing/trafficking small pox or anthrax. I think I am a reasonable person, perhaps it’s just a matter of perspective.

Actually, murder usually happens in a fit of rage, or as a form of self defense (even revenge is a form of self defense too, in a way). So drug trafficing is usually worse than murder in that it is definetly a concious decision.

Pretty funny doc_bean, about taking 400 grams of H!