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Thread: Faith healers
i have read some stuff about faith healing recently and I wanted to ask around here what you guys think. Personally I think it's not possible.
What!!!! 
the laying on of hands is a load of old bollox and a right con job? Who said that? 
Ohh...that's right ..... I did
the laying on of hands is a load of old bollox and a right con job? Who said that? Ohh...that's right ..... I did
Of course not.
Might help people cope because of all the human contact plus the placedbo effect etc.
But can't cure you of anything.
Might help people cope because of all the human contact plus the placedbo effect etc.
But can't cure you of anything.
If anyone votes "yes", please contact me.........I have this great bridge to sell and I can make you a killer deal on it
Until I see it, I don`t believe. However, I cannot vote in the poll because we cannot know.
Of course the placebo effect is generally useful. The mental as well as the physical strength of the patient can be critical to recovery. As a cure in itself though faith healing, like so many "new age" remedies is a useless money sink.
You should never underestimate the placebo effect. I have experienced it myself.
I have an aggressive arthritis (fortunately I am still relatively young and I only have it in my toes… still).
When I studied in Australia I had to take pills 3 times a day to “survive”. When I got back home this continued a year. Then it lessened and I barely take any pills today.
I still have bad days where I need to take them.
One such particular day, the aching was bad and I took a pill, so I thought. The effect came soon as it always do and I could finally sit down with a book.
My wife came out of the kitchen and asked why I had just left the pill on the table top; “You know those are dangerous for the kids…”
I had left the pill and had just drunk/drank/drunken a glass of water.
Knowing that the ache will just continue and continue without those pills, I was kind of baffled.
My wife who is studying to become a pharmaceutical chemist told me about the placebo effect and how it miraculously works.
I did believe I took the pill but the evidence lay in my wife’s hand. I was healed by faith.
I haven’t taken a pill since because there has not been a need to (one month and counting).
[edit]: I did vote no by the way... the self proclaimed healers are quacks.
The placebo effect can’t be transmitted; it is only the individual’s own faith that can heal that individual.
[edit2]: english
I have an aggressive arthritis (fortunately I am still relatively young and I only have it in my toes… still).
When I studied in Australia I had to take pills 3 times a day to “survive”. When I got back home this continued a year. Then it lessened and I barely take any pills today.
I still have bad days where I need to take them.
One such particular day, the aching was bad and I took a pill, so I thought. The effect came soon as it always do and I could finally sit down with a book.
My wife came out of the kitchen and asked why I had just left the pill on the table top; “You know those are dangerous for the kids…”
I had left the pill and had just drunk/
Knowing that the ache will just continue and continue without those pills, I was kind of baffled.
My wife who is studying to become a pharmaceutical chemist told me about the placebo effect and how it miraculously works.
I did believe I took the pill but the evidence lay in my wife’s hand. I was healed by faith.
I haven’t taken a pill since because there has not been a need to (one month and counting).
[edit]: I did vote no by the way... the self proclaimed healers are quacks.
The placebo effect can’t be transmitted; it is only the individual’s own faith that can heal that individual.
[edit2]: english
I say no. However I believe that it might give the person in need of healing a positive attitude and that will generally help healing, but I don’t think it would cure anything. Of course it often builds a false sense of security and may cause the one in need of healing to not seek real treatment that could indeed cure them. I would imagine many people die because they put their health in “gods” hands.
No. Faith healers are at best completely useless, and at the worst they implant their gullible customers with false hopes of remedy. A couple of years back a Dutch faith healer called Jomanda convinced a Dutch TV star (Silvia Millecam) not to get medical treatment for her cancer (IIRC Jomanda told her that she didn't even have cancer), but instead rely on her healing power to do the trick. Then she died. The Inspection for Health Care tried to put her behind bars, but failed.
Ah, the good old placebo effect. Sadly though, most people actually believe that some "god" or whatever will cure them, which is probably the biggest load of "medical" bullshit out there today. A positive attidue always helps. "God" doesn't.
I really don't understand why rational people misunderstand the significance of the placebo effect. It is a point of dismissal, when in fact it is the cheapest and most widely effective cure-all ever known.
Say the placebo effect accounts for 10% of all cures. Therefore any rational chronically sick person should go and try at least 10 alternative therapies. Swim with dolphins, stick a magic crystal up your *$&% whatever -if you are on a 10 to 1 shot to be cured, go for it.
Say the placebo effect accounts for 10% of all cures. Therefore any rational chronically sick person should go and try at least 10 alternative therapies. Swim with dolphins, stick a magic crystal up your *$&% whatever -if you are on a 10 to 1 shot to be cured, go for it.
For faith healing to work as a placebo, the patient must first believe that the faith healer is not a crook. But if you believe in such things, you could fall in the hands of faith healers who are incompetent or don't even care about your health. It could lead to people dismissing the advice of real doctors because the faith healer tells them too. If you want to employ alternative medicine for their possible placebo effects (wich I acknowledge might work on some), it should be administered through official channels, preferably the doctor himself. We should not let desperate patients fall for crooks with no medical education and who don't know the first thing what they're talking about.
At Southampton Solent University (formerly an institute), England you can get a degree in animal healing, which is putting your hands on an animal and pretending you're connecting "energies". It's amazing what the education system is coming to. I say healing is a load of rubbish, though I do think you can convince yourself through self-determination out of something. With things like acupuncture, on Braniac:Science Abuse (good TV show ^_^) they managed to make a man give up smoking with pretend acupuncture which was using a geometry set and a man from the local chinese. The man gave up smoking, but these results could have been faked. Acupuncture and other such treatments give people the sense that they can give up/get better because they are being helped, and gives them the force of will required to get better/give up.
No.
No, but some sort of research into the subject is necessary.
Originally Posted by Ziaelas:
Acupuncture and other such treatments give people the sense that they can give up/get better because they are being helped, and gives them the force of will required to get better/give up.
There's a discussion about acupuncture in the martial arts thread. It seems that acupuncture can have an effect besides the placebo effect.Acupuncture and other such treatments give people the sense that they can give up/get better because they are being helped, and gives them the force of will required to get better/give up.
But curing aids ? Nah.
When I have a headache my wife lays hands on me and massages my head - and the headache goes away.
Originally Posted by :
Can faith healers cure people of disease such as AIDS ?
Yes 0 0%
No 31 100.00%
Voters: 31. You have already voted on this poll
I think the results say everything that has to be said.Can faith healers cure people of disease such as AIDS ?
Yes 0 0%
No 31 100.00%
Voters: 31. You have already voted on this poll
No. It doesn't heal, in the best case the placebo effect can decrease it significantly and help you to convince yourself that it's healed, but it's all about the power of sugestion. Faith doesn't do a squat...
Originally Posted by Soulforged:
Faith doesn't do a squat...
Oh but I have faith that I can squat...Faith doesn't do a squat...
I voted yes for a laugh.Laughter is the best medicine?
I have faith in that.
Originally Posted by :
Yes 3 7.50%
No 37 92.50%
How worrying.Yes 3 7.50%
No 37 92.50%
Still, I see a business opportuinity.
There was once an experiment that a group of people suffering depression were gathered. Then they were split into two groups. One group took anti-depressants actually while the other group was told to be taking antidepressants but were given placebo instead.
At the end of a particular period, the healing ratio of both groups were rated the same. Believing that you will recover with true faith works. Believe it.
At the end of a particular period, the healing ratio of both groups were rated the same. Believing that you will recover with true faith works. Believe it.
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine:
There was once an experiment that a group of people suffering depression were gathered. Then they were split into two groups. One group took anti-depressants actually while the other group was told to be taking antidepressants but were given placebo instead.
At the end of a particular period, the healing ratio of both groups were rated the same. Believing that you will recover with true faith works. Believe it.
Against problems such as depression, the placebo effect might work sometimes. But against diseases caused by microorganisms, no. You don't kill the HIV virus just by thinking that you can.There was once an experiment that a group of people suffering depression were gathered. Then they were split into two groups. One group took anti-depressants actually while the other group was told to be taking antidepressants but were given placebo instead.
At the end of a particular period, the healing ratio of both groups were rated the same. Believing that you will recover with true faith works. Believe it.
Amen to that.
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
Against problems such as depression, the placebo effect might just work sometimes. But against actual diseases, no. You don't kill the HIV virus just by thinking that you can.
Faith and its forms (like religion) strengthens your body's immune system. I don't think you can kill HIV with thinking and staying away from therapies either. But it helps with endurance that is almost proved.Against problems such as depression, the placebo effect might just work sometimes. But against actual diseases, no. You don't kill the HIV virus just by thinking that you can.
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine:
Faith and its forms (like religion) strengthens your body's immune system. I don't think you can kill HIV with thinking and staying away from therapies either. But it helps with endurance that is almost proved.
Well as they say, a miss is a good as a mile.Faith and its forms (like religion) strengthens your body's immune system. I don't think you can kill HIV with thinking and staying away from therapies either. But it helps with endurance that is almost proved.
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine:
Faith and its forms (like religion) strengthens your body's immune system. I don't think you can kill HIV with thinking and staying away from therapies either. But it helps with endurance that is almost proved.
What they are missing is that faith - will often keep you from getting the disease in the first place. Faith and its forms (like religion) strengthens your body's immune system. I don't think you can kill HIV with thinking and staying away from therapies either. But it helps with endurance that is almost proved.
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