Is this flag racist?

[InsaneApache]

well is it?

St. George

[Idaho]

If it is intended to be, then yes. And based on the situation in Oldham, and the prevalence of BNP there (not to mention thier familiar tactic of recruiting at football matches) I would say it was.

However the flag, and the message, per se, are not racist.

[InsaneApache]

I tend to agree about the BNP in Oldham malarky ... but that in itself doesn't make our national flag racist.

http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000006D8C1.htm

^For our overseas fellows^

[Weebeast]

It's how you intend it to be, I think. I had a confederate flag on other forum as my avatar. It's just a symbolism; me being here in the south.

Now that flag, I think the saying is a shot at people who weren't born in England or live in England.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Is the flag racist? No, not by itself.

Was it used as a racist symbol by that guy? I would say so, yes. Or rather, not necessarily racist, but ultra-nationalistic. And I wouldn't want that crap in my stadium either.

[InsaneApache]

but the 'Stars and Bars' was/is seen as a symbol of a regime that enforced slavery.... we have no real history of utilising slaves in England....I don't see the parallel at all.

I believe an agenda is at work here...to shame the English and to erode our national pride and identity.

[Louis VI the Fat]

^For our overseas fellows^

On a completely unrelated side-note. It suddenly struck me how convenient it is for the British to be able to use 'overseas' and 'non-British' as synonyms. Being an island and all that.

If I were to say 'for my overseas fellows', would that be proper English for 'non-French' or would that be just 'non-sense'? Do Americans have any short concise term for non-Americans?

[InsaneApache]

You could always use the term 'abroad' .... we use both in the UK....but you're right I never thought about it until now, 'overseas' would'n't cut the mustard on mainland Europe now would it?

[Idaho]

I believe an agenda is at work here...to shame the English and to erode our national pride and identity.

I believe the agenda is to make this spurious claim in order to bolster support for right wing groups.

[Tsavong]

It pisses me off that people use the flag of England in that way.
and another thing what are they moaning about, life in modern England, and the rest of Britan is batter than it ever has been before, and compared to the rest of the world Britan and western Europe are some of the best places to live, if your not wealthy much batter than any other countries.
And would England be batter with out any non English in it right now, no the country as a while would be poorer.

ok enough of the rant

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Certain football clubs fans use the Flag of st george for racial undertones. Big teams like Chelsea use to have big links to combat 18 and other racist groups and other teams in the lower leagues have facist links but that doesn't make the flag racist, we need to take the flag back from certain idiots as their opinions are affecting when and where we can show are national flag as a symbol of pride.

To be honest i have seen worst things, like burning the English flag by extremists not long ago in Birmingham city centre and London, but oddly enough we don't hear that much about that. I don't think its racist as those words are simply stating what it is to be an Englishman, and the flag should connote that.

I'm not to sure about the familar tactic of recruiting at football matches. Racism is virtually not existant at footie matches nowadays. I know people refer alot to to Stoke city and Oldham match when apparently both hooligans firms allied and attacked Muslim areas but alot of it is incorrect. overhyped and quite frankly bollocks.

Besides look to Spain and Italy racism is beyond belief over there.

[InsaneApache]

I believe the agenda is to make this spurious claim in order to bolster support for right wing groups.

Spurious?? right wing groups???

Over and over again the indiginous population are made to feel guilty and ashamed of their heritage. This is purportrated by the left. If there is a backlash, then they only have themselves to blame for promoting alien cultures above the host nation. I see no right wing agenda there.

[Templar Knight]

Of course it’s not racist, it has just unfortunately been hijacked

[Idaho]

Spurious?? right wing groups???

Over and over again the indiginous population are made to feel guilty and ashamed of their heritage. This is purportrated by the left. If there is a backlash, then they only have themselves to blame for promoting alien cultures above the host nation. I see no right wing agenda there.

What on earth are you blathering about? Who is making you ashamed of your heritage? What is your heritage? What alien cultures are being promoted?

I have a feeling you are talking Daily Mail style sh*te with the hope that if you throw enough reactionary cliches at one post something might hopefully make sense.

[Idaho]

I take it all back. Earlier today I was buying a pastie. I was rounded upon by gay muslims and forced to spit on pictures of the Duke of Wellington whilst apologising in Polish for the sins of my forefathers.

[Ser Clegane]

I take it all back. Earlier today I was buying a pastie. I was rounded upon by gay muslims and forced to spit on pictures of the Duke of Wellington whilst apologising in Polish for the sins of my forefathers.

Serves you right

[el_slapper]

well, it really is dependant on the context. In France, Racism is mostly directed against people born in France, living in France & who will probably die in France. Well, some of them will be buried in North Africa, but it doesn't enter the flag quote.....

The situation in England is different, it seems, & one has to know the context better than myself to judge...

[Duke Malcolm]

Good lord, no, that flag is not rascist! The Saltire has as much racist connotations as that flag!

[Husar]

Religious events in India are full of swastikas, does that make them all Nazis?

[Slyspy]

I take it all back. Earlier today I was buying a pastie. I was rounded upon by gay muslims and forced to spit on pictures of the Duke of Wellington whilst apologising in Polish for the sins of my forefathers.

As a gay muslim I resent the slur implied by your use of Polish, a language which I cannot understand, in your apology!

[Ianofsmeg16]

Oh for god sake, WHEN WILL THIS STOP?!?
listen, i aint a racist, in fact i enjoy learning and experiencing other cultures. But when you thing that a nations flag is racist, its gone too farthe opposite seems to be happening here. The flag of Saint George is England's Flag, it is not an anti-muslim flag, get over it.


p.s. I apologise to any muslim patrons, those that know me, know that i am not racist, but this is an issue i feel strongly on :) so...let there be love!

[Templar Knight]

In Glasgow sometime ago there was a kick up about the union jack being anti-{insert culture} but it wasn't the ethnic minorities that were complaining, it was local councillors and other local politicians that felt that it was alienating them. But if you asked the communities they were supposedly standing up for they had nothing against it.

And another note, about Christmas. I have never once heard ethic groups complaining about the festive season, again only local politicians. Strangely enough a lot of shops in these communities sell tons of xmas goodies, so they are hardly against it.

[yesdachi]

Is this flag racist?

Not to me.

[King Henry V]

The flag is not racist, and just because a few extreme groups use it, I do not see why the rest of the English nation should not be allowed to do so.
However, I do find some things said by Allen to be very offensive:
"If we see it again at our ground I will find the person responsible and burn it in front of him".
If a foreign flag was publicly burnt in Britain (unless it's the usual suspects -anarchists- burning an American and Israeli flag) there would be also be a complaint from the said nation. But of course if the flag of St. George is burned in its patron country, it is perfectly acceptable...
"It has no place in society"
Oh so just because Mr Smarty Allen doesn't like the flag and thinks it has "racial undertones" a flag which has represented England for the past 800 years, it should no longer be used in today's society. If this were Saint Andrew's Cross, Saint Patrick's Cross or the Welsh Dragon, the said flag's country would have a fit. But since this is England, where all sense of national pride is almost frowned upon, this can be allowed to happen freely.
Actually the only thing that the phrase "Born in England, Live in England, Die in England" is the phrase of a packet of beef I saw in France "Born in France, Raised in France, Slaughtered in France".

[Louis VI the Fat]

Context is what matters.

the phrase of a packet of beef I saw in France "Born in France, Raised in France, Slaughtered in France".

In a supermarket, that would be perfectly neutral.

But when chanted by Front National sympathizers against some Africans born and bred in France...

[InsaneApache]

Context is what matters.

Give that man a cigar....

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
The flag is innocent but the slogan is too familiar for me; our racists regularly use "love or leave" over here.
.

[Mouzafphaerre]

Of course it’s not racist, it has just unfortunately been hijacked

.
Hijacked is just the word.
.

[ShadesWolf]

A Flag cannot be rascist, it is part of our heritage.

It would be no different than staying 'Burberry' is rascist as a large percentage of football yobs wear Burberry.

Or better still, BMW are rascist as 'Nick Griffin' drives one.

How stupid, Labour should sack him and take his pension away for saying it, but Bliar will probably put him in the House of Lords

[Brenus]

Not really related to the actual debate, but I read in a newspaper (Metro) that St Georges became the Saint of England in 1415, before it was St Edward. Does somebody know why the change? Other collateral damage, the famous sentence in Agincourt was a poetic licence; The King should have say for England, Harry and St Edward…
Nothing is sure nowadays…

A flag by itself isn’t racist, nor a National Hymn (La Marseillaise is blame to be to bloody and xenophobic… well it said to kill all the foreigners, but only the ones who come to kill our wives and partners), however it can represent racist ideologies… The swastika in Europe is one of them, the most know, at least. And I don’t care if it is in fact the representation of the travel of the sun in the sky, the sun wheel or other signification. For me it is a Nazi symbol, so racist, as so are all the sub-division.
Concerning the Confederate Flag, I don’t know.
I suppose that if I should be a black American, I would nor appreciate to much a flag which was carried by those who want me just as a slave…