Is this flag racist?

[lancelot]

Well, the reference to being "born in England" does seem anti immigrant at least?

I wholeheartedly disagree. Your own personal opinion and bias colours that statement.

If I say I am goin here or I am doing this or I am from here for example, where exactly is the implication that I think anyone going somewhere else/doing something else/from another place, is a slight against them ???

Thats the trouble, people bring their own bias and pass it off as someone else's discrimination.

[English assassin]

Well my personal opinion colours all of my statements, though whether they amount to bias I will leave to the court of public opinion.

Obviously in some contexts (filling out a passport application form, for example) drawing attention to the fact that you were born in England is neutral. But as a slogan "born in England live in England die in England" is plainly exclusionary. If you WEREN'T born in England there's not much you can do now to joint the "Born in England" club, is there. And presumably the sloganner thinks the Born in England club is a good one or he wouldn't be so proud to be in it himself. Therefore it seems a reasonably assumption that the best he is going to say to an immigrant is "two out of three aint bad".

Personally I am glad I have more things in life to be proud of than where I was born, as it is one of those achievements over which we have no influence whatsoever.

[Ja'chyra]

Well my personal opinion colours all of my statements, though whether they amount to bias I will leave to the court of public opinion.

Obviously in some contexts (filling out a passport application form, for example) drawing attention to the fact that you were born in England is neutral. But as a slogan "born in England live in England die in England" is plainly exclusionary. If you WEREN'T born in England there's not much you can do now to joint the "Born in England" club, is there. And presumably the sloganner thinks the Born in England club is a good one or he wouldn't be so proud to be in it himself. Therefore it seems a reasonably assumption that the best he is going to say to an immigrant is "two out of three aint bad".

Personally I am glad I have more things in life to be proud of than where I was born, as it is one of those achievements over which we have no influence whatsoever.

I get what you're saying EA but no-one said that there's any type of club, all the guy did was make a personal statement. That's why I don't agree with the

'A racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person.'

[Byzantine Mercenary]

what these national front people forget is that so called british people were themselves once immagrants from germany and france, Britain has had loads of immigration throughout its history

[Geoffrey S]

Neither the flag nor the use thereof are particularly racist. It can be inferred, but the use of the flag seems rather more like bad taste and nationalism gone a little too far than actual racism.

As for the flag, no it is not racist and the more non racists use it the less it will seem to be racist.

Interesting point. More use of flags should strengthen the national identity; it's not the waving of the flag that should offend, but the often extreme nationalistic thoughts behind it. Being proud of your country should not be something to be ashamed of, but often it is seen as such.

[Husar]

.
Thus became the poor svastika the sign of evil.
.

and still they use it everywhere in India...

[ShadesWolf]

Cambridge Dictionary

racism : the belief that people's qualities are influenced by their race and that the members of other races are not as good as the members of your own, or the resulting unfair treatment of members of other races

racist : someone who believes that other races are not as good as their own and therefore treats them unfairly

Therefore as a flag is not a person, its an inanimate object it cannot be racist.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

and still they use it* everywhere in India...

That's good.

* svastika
.

[GonZ]

No the flag is not racist.

A racist can wave the flag just like anyone else... but the flag remains just the symbol of England.

IIRC St George was possibly Turkish or Syrian in origin - and was a guy who stood up for minority interests (Christianity). So its not a good starting point for racists. Having said that the racists I have met don't know their arses from their elbows anyway.

It's not a racist flag and it's not a racist country. Yes there are racists here, just like there are criminals, scroungers and other vermin.

[TheSilverKnight]

Americans to view most non-Americans with some suspicion, this dates back to the Red Scares most likely. Henceforth, you are all commies.

[sarcasm]
Oh boy. Thanks Capo. I'm obviously a god-less, Stalin-hugging, Lenin-worshipping commie then who believes Americans should be ground into the earth and your capitalism should be done away with. Thanks a lot for your great generalisation of the rest of the world. I'd like to see what other bullocks you've come up with for the rest of the world. [/sarcasm]

[Soulforged]

[sarcasm]
Oh boy. Thanks Capo. I'm obviously a god-less, Stalin-hugging, Lenin-worshipping commie then who believes Americans should be ground into the earth and your capitalism should be done away with. Thanks a lot for your great generalisation of the rest of the world. I'd like to see what other bullocks you've come up with for the rest of the world. [/sarcasm]

This is just absurd, but anyway, I don't think that it's an insult being called communist. Just a thought (I think it's best than being called capitalist).

[TheSilverKnight]

This is just absurd, but anyway, I don't think that it's an insult being called communist. Just a thought (I think it's best than being called capitalist).

Cierto, pero si usted advirtió la etiqueta de [sarcasm], entonces estoy seguro usted verá estoy tonto

I have nothing wrong with Capitalism, or Communism, but the fact that Capo thinks everyone outside the USA is a communist is rather close minded and offensive.

[Kralizec]

Because we ARE. Duh!

[mystic brew]

A racist incident is any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person

just to further clear this up...
this phrase, clumsily spoken, is that the police are under an obligation to investigate any incident where a person complains of racism as a possibly racist incident.

Under police statistics, 'racist incidents' are how these are reported to them. the number of actual racist incidents, once investigated by the police, is substantially lower.

It's one of those phrases that has been used in a specific way, but when circulated out of context seem wrong.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Thats like saying the union jack didnt just stand for the tyranny and oppresion of millions for the sake of God Queen and country

Yeah, whatever, I'm trying to admit that the flag you hold so dearly isn't that bad, but whatever...

[Kaiser of Arabia]

[sarcasm]
Oh boy. Thanks Capo. I'm obviously a god-less, Stalin-hugging, Lenin-worshipping commie then who believes Americans should be ground into the earth and your capitalism should be done away with. Thanks a lot for your great generalisation of the rest of the world. I'd like to see what other bullocks you've come up with for the rest of the world. [/sarcasm]

I'm not saying that's what I beleive, it's just a general concensous of people wiht short conciese names for broad groups like that.

We have 'em for individual nations, PM on demand
EDIT: Soulforged, only a communist would say that

[Arcanum]

The masses should think more rational and give less about symbolism.

If I run around with a freaking flag of Germany with a svastika on it and a few burning crosses and a little confederate flag because I think it looks cool, am I a racist?

For example, I find that the old german flag with black, red and white, looks far better than the new one. Also I think crosses and svastikas look neat, does that make me a neo-nazi christian?

I don't give a damn what people think symbolizes what. That's as pointless as trying to interprete Eminem songs.

[monkian]

I'm not saying that's what I beleive, it's just a general concensous of people wiht short conciese names for broad groups like that.

We have 'em for individual nations, PM on demand
EDIT: Soulforged, only a communist would say that

You do realise Mcarthyism was a bad thing right ?

[King Henry V]

I was born in America, I live in America, I'm going to die in America.

Did I offend any non Americans with that?

Oh and short concise terms we have for non-Americans?

Commies.

What, you mean like this?

[Prodigal]

Got bored readin halfway down page 2, so soz if its been said already.

For the record mainland UK has 3 distinct flags, the coolest is the Welsh one btw.

St George, watch some Barcelona football matches, the St George cross flags aren't being laid out by expats from the UK, he's also the patron saint there too.

The phrase "Born in England Live in England Die in England" not really offensive to be honest, makes me pleased that the stupid little oik won't be going abroad.

I can understand why some would find it offensive, but then, I find their simpering "pc" agenda's as offensive as the people who write such trite little "patriotic" slogans on flags.

[lancelot]

What, you mean like this?

That is classic!

[lancelot]

I find their simpering "pc" agenda's as offensive as the people who write such trite little "patriotic" slogans on flags.

Exactly.

[Shahed]

That flag bears the emblem of the Templars right ? So what do you think, were the Templars something to be proud of ?

Just asking, no offence intended.

[King Ragnar]

The flag is in now way racist, nor what was said about dieing and living in england. If that guy wants to be proud to be english like myself let him express it, and if anyone is offended by it, there is nothing they can do, we live in democracy thus he has freedom of speech, to say what he wants.

[King Henry V]

It's called satire...the equivalent of calling the rest of the world commies.

[GoreBag]

I love the phrase 'Here Be Dragons'. I'm actually smiling as I hear it in my mind.

I don't think an image can be racist, even if it's an image of a mob of guys in white hoods lynching a black man. It is what it is and it depicts what it depicts.

[lancelot]

That flag bears the emblem of the Templars right ? So what do you think, were the Templars something to be proud of ?

Just asking, no offence intended.

The Templars were founded originally to protect christian pilgramages for raiders, not wage wars, so I dont see anything wrong with them, no.

And even when they did fight in wars, they were hardly exclusive, so again, not really any problems there.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

The templars were no worse than the other christian orders of their time, they got a bad reputation because the king of france at the time wanted all their money and so called them heretics and tortured a load of them so that they would support this

[Brenus]

“The templars were no worse than the other christian orders of their time, they got a bad reputation because the king of france at the time wanted all their money and so called them heretics and tortured a load of them so that they would support this”
Not only. Phillip II wanted to unite the kingdom and refused any power in the power. Remember he was the one who fought and won Bouvines (27th of July 1214). In succeeding that, he secured his dynasty on the throne, obliging the Holly Romans Imperator Otto II to forget all his dreams about France (future) but more importantly, it was the end of the Plantagenet’s dream (John Lackland) of the French throne, at least for one century. The French Chivalry got her reputation in this battle… His son even become King of England for a short period, but lost all in the battle at Lincoln (20th of May 1416) and forced to accept a small amount of money in return of the Crown of England.
Anyway, the Templar effused a fusion with the Hospitaliers (and other order) in order to prepare a new crusade. Jacques de Molay was scared to loose his job. The French King didn’t appreciate and the 13th of October 1307, Friday the, all Templar are in jail.
The 3rd of May 1312, the Pope allocated the Templar’s fortune to the Order of the Hospitaliers. One year later this order re-paid the French King of 200,000 Pounds.
The Templars were the victims of the French Kings (Capetiens) will to be free from all Church influence…
Irony of history, his daughter, married with the English King Edouard III will give the pretext for the English King to claim the throne of France of the “Chef” of his wife, all Phillip’s sons dead without heirs….