Joan of Arc, who is she?

[Gtafanboy]

Um, I heard that there was a Joan of Arc in the game. May I ask who she is, what faction is she for, and whats so special about her?

[YAKOBU]

Hi Gtafanboy

Joan of Arc (otherwise known as The Maid of Orleons) fought for the French against my ancestors the British. She was burnt at the stake as a witch by the British and eventually made a Saint.

That's my limited knowledge summarised.

[lugh]

Like I said in pm's I heartily recommend the film by the same name, by Luc Besson.
You might have a better luck with this in the Monastery though, there' all kind of very knowledgeable people over there.
Long story short, God told her to lead the French to battle, commence serious ass-whoopage of the English, the French King then betrayed her when her armies became a too-expensive habit to keep around and she was burned at the stake by the English.

[Gtafanboy]

Can you play her in the game?

[Gtafanboy]

N/m I just read the PM. Thanks yall.

[Yoyoma1910]

She comes out in Late, I believe, under the French of course. I don't rememeber what unit type you have to build to get her though. She's a high star no accumen general, so she's ment to lead battles, but not govern.

She is the patron saint of Orleans and New Orleans, and she lead the French king to the Cathedral in Rheims (right near where my "better half" is from) to be crowned there, in the traditional spot before those Norman Vassals decided not to play by the rules of feilty.

She was a common peasant, and believed that God wanted her to guide her country in kicking the English out of France. Which, she sort of did, although there are several other factors which helped as well. The English Monarchy was weakening, and had consented the right of raising taxes to Parlament. Also the Burgundians (which are a faction that somtimes pops up in the game), who were France's second strongest Vassals after the Plantaginists (Dukes of Normandy and Kings of England), had shifted their alliances from the Normans to the French. The Burgundians would latter betray Joan, and hand her over to the English, hoping it would end the war. And of course the war of the roses, which begain the year MTW ends, begain, which left the English to divided to fight the French at all.


As a side note on the Burgundians, they were related to the Hapsburgs through Emperor Maximillian, who had taken one of their princesses as his first wife. I think she later died in child birth.


I also think Joan of Arch is said to have died a virgin.

[Knight Templar]

One link if you are interested:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Arc

[Grey_Fox]

Joan of Arc was a woman that didn't know her place

(don't hurt me)

[matteus the inbred]

wooh, someone's in trouble now!

[Mithrandir]

Moved to history dojo.

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Although she no doubt inspired some of France to fight, i think it undermines the hard work of others, Gilles De Rais ( Before his perversions he was a good commander), Jean Count of Dunois for example who fought much more than Joan did and i feel sorry for her being burnt but the way people talk about her totally turning the tide against the English is insane.

Even by the time of the siege of Orleans, the Engish siege lines couldn't surround the whole of Orleans and the morale was very low after the Earl of sailsbury was killed. Normandy was being over taxed and was in near rebellion, reinforcements were always trickling through to Orleans and in actual fact the defenders considerable outnumbered the besiegers and not to mention the lacklustre allies in the Burgundians who left leaving huge gaps in the siege lines.

The subsequent Patay campaign where the English lost the battle by bickering between commanders rather than the French winning it , shouldn't really be credited to her either.

Overall old Joan is rather overated but i suppose she was there in inspire people but all this rubbish about her never lifting a sword is probably crap. She wasn't that sparing of life when her troops massacred the English in the Tourelle

[ShadesWolf]

For info on Joan of arc take a look at this

100 years war website - Joan of Arc article

[Watchman]

I understand Joan (or "Jeanne", as the French form of the name would be) never even pretended being much of a military leader herself; she worked pretty closely with the acting French commanders most of the time, after all. Her chief value was as a symbol; she greatlly helped the understandably somewhat sagging French fighting spirit, and the generals were well aware of this. Although I've seen it mentioned she was also able to introduce somewhat more proactive field tactics, involving assaulting English troops while they were still deploying into their depressingly effective customary defensive setup, but dunno about that.

[Brenus]

Jeanne d’Arc is a creation of the 19 Century. The purpose was after the French-Prussian and the lost of Alsace-Lorraine to boost the French Moral for the re-conquest of the lost territory. Amazingly enough, it was the 3rd Republic and the what some of you should called lefties who created her legend. She was from Lorraine, French Heroine, and this territory was in German’s hand. How the Germans could claim this territory as their?

Now, nobody is sure who she was. Most probably she was the natural daughter of the Duke of Lorraine (not a Sheppard), and was probably like all the Nobles bastards at this time grown up in a farm. And yes, she was helped by the most talented generals, La Hire, Giles de Rais (apparently she had something more with him), who won the victory. But nobody can deny the moral effect on the French.

However, the real and definitive French victory happened when the French used a weapon which cancelled the long bow: artillery. To be efficient, the archers had to be grouped. Doing that, they became sitting ducks for the cannons… If they spread, the French Cavalry was quiet happy to do the job.
Basically, it was Agincourt, the Vengeance. Just this time, it was the English to taste the bitter lesson of the technological race.

[Watchman]

Wasn't that only later on ? I'm pretty sure Jeanne was before the Ordonnances and the establishement of a truly powerful French artillery train...

[Randarkmaan]

However, the real and definitive French victory happened when the French used a weapon which cancelled the long bow: artillery. To be efficient, the archers had to be grouped. Doing that, they became sitting ducks for the cannons…

That brings back some memories form AOEII, I think it was La Hire or someone else who said "English longbows are good, but French cannon is even better!". Then you got some bombards to blast down the walls and the english.

[Mouzafphaerre]

I understand Joan (or "Jeanne", as the French form of the name would be) never even pretended being much of a military leader herself; she worked pretty closely with the acting French commanders most of the time, after all. Her chief value was as a symbol; she greatlly helped the understandably somewhat sagging French fighting spirit, and the generals were well aware of this. Although I've seen it mentioned she was also able to introduce somewhat more proactive field tactics, involving assaulting English troops while they were still deploying into their depressingly effective customary defensive setup, but dunno about that.

.

.

[Meneldil]

Wasn't that only later on ? I'm pretty sure Jeanne was before the Ordonnances and the establishement of a truly powerful French artillery train...

True, the French had neither ordonnance nor a lot of gunpowder artillery by the time of Jeanne.
But as Brenus said, her legend is mostly made up by 18th and 19th century people. You know, the maiden warrior fighting for her country and against the british.

[Watchman]

Ugh, yes. The 1800s hip-hooray national sentiment phase. Ick. Jeanne's would have been among the least lurid and off-the-wall of the assorted national myths being put into circulation around the time...

Ever seen paintings of the period ? Pretentious romanticism at its finest, and often replete with winged and/or horned helmets...

Kinda curious really that the French would dig her up at the time though, seeing as how their new chief nemesis were the Germans; the rise of unified Germany was after all enough to convince the Brits and French to drop their old mutual grudges and ally...

But then again I never could quite comprehend the national-romantic mindset.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
There's the myth (divine maiden hero singlehandedly bending the English despite the incompetent king) and revisionism (opportunist slut, maitresse of Duc de Something, figurehead of X party...) but the fact stands. In Watchman's words:

Her chief value was as a symbol; she greatlly helped the understandably somewhat sagging French fighting spirit.

.

[Meneldil]

But then again I never could quite comprehend the national-romantic mindset.

Nothing to understand here. People like fighting babes, period. That's what you can find in many american comics, japanese manga and french bandes-dessinées

[matteus the inbred]

That brings back some memories form AOEII, I think it was La Hire or someone else who said "English longbows are good, but French cannon is even better!". Then you got some bombards to blast down the walls and the english.

i remember that! it was in zees cheezy French accent...the guy was Jean Bureau, a noted French commander and artillery specialist (he was made Royal Master of Artillery) who defeated and killed Sir John Talbot at Castillon in 1453, effectively the last engagement of the 100 Years War.

fighting chicks are very evocative, and most cultures have one...Boadicea, Amazons eg. i think female gladiators in Rome remain unsubstantiated though?

[Watchman]

The Romans would try damn near anything for the arenas. Some variety for the usual fare, you know ? Including naval battles...