Ghurkas

[English assassin]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/s...659226,00.html

An article about the annual selection in Nepal to join the British Army's Ghurka regiment which I thought might interest the Org

[Ja'chyra]

A very interesting read.

All the Ghurkas I have worked with have been great people very friendly, and obviously very strong.

The only crticism I could make is that the British Army doesn't treat them as well as they should.

[KukriKhan]

Those guys and their history have always fascinated me.

I saw brief mention of the 'pension parity' concerns in the article; does anyone know if Ghurkas are paid the same as native-born Brit troops?

[English assassin]

Not at present http://www.army.mod.uk/brigade_of_gu...ial_review.htm

I believe their pay rates were the same as the old Indian army, which no longer exists. (well, it does, only now its Indian, if you see what I mean)

[English assassin]

double post

[yesdachi]

Cool article. From it I lave learned/confirmed that average life in Nepal sucks, I am totally out of shape compared to the applicants and dads who are proud of their kids know how to party!

If he gets selected I will have a party. I will have a big goat and chop off its head.

[Geoffrey S]

The Gurkhas are fascinating, and it's an interesting article.

[Adrian II]

The reason these youths are here is not hard to divine. Nepal is one of the poorest countries in Asia, with 82% surviving on less than $2 a day.

Yes. How fascinating they are, these mercenaries bought on the cheap.

Yuk.

[Geoffrey S]

Not very ethical, true, but their fairly unique position in the British armed forces and their service in both World Wars makes them interesting to me; that their selection is still ongoing in such an archaic and dubious way that is out of character for a modern Western nation makes them even more so.

[English assassin]

Would it be better if they worked in a GAP sweatshop?

What's wrong with a poor country exporting labour? And, without coming over all misty eyed, serving as a Ghurka is something they can be proud of.

[Adrian II]

Would it be better if they worked in a GAP sweatshop?

Isn't that what they tell Third World girls before they ship them off to western brothels? Rather thin excuse.

[Red Peasant]

Successive British governments have considerably reduced the Ghurka regiments and would like to eliminate them altogether one feels, but support for them is widespread in Britain and it is felt that we owe a debt to these people for their service to this country.
A hell of a lot of people in Britain don't earn £1000 per month so Ghurka pay is not exactly cheap, and their increased pension is certainly more than I would currently be entitled to from the state, but I don't begrudge them one bit, and I've never met anyone who does.

[English assassin]

Isn't that what they tell Third World girls before they ship them off to western brothels? Rather thin excuse.

You are trying a bit too hard if you think that there is no valid distinction between service in the British Army and working in a brothel, AII.

Anyway, come on, there are loads of 18 yr old boys in Nepal right this moment. You read the article. Can you make the case that stopping the army recruiting into the Ghurkas would be a good thing for them?

I think we should have more ghurkas myself.

[Adrian II]

You are trying a bit too hard if you think that there is no valid distinction between service in the British Army and working in a brothel, AII.

Gurkhas literally sell their bodies to escape the feudal misery of Nepal. As for the 'debt' which 'grateful Britain' owes them: Gurkhas were payed a pittance until recently when they were finally in a position to file a class action suit. There is nothing fascinating about the whole thing, unless you believe in the 'warrior races' nonsense, in which case I wish you a happy 19th century.

[Duke Malcolm]

With 15,000 applicants, we could easily get a few more battalions.

I don't see anything wrong with recruiting the Ghurkas... Nepal is in the British Commonwealth, so if we didn't have the Brigade of Ghurkas they would simply join other regiments, at least they can call the Ghurkas their own and be proud of it as we are of our own regiments...

[English assassin]

Gurkhas literally sell their bodies to escape the feudal misery of Nepal

No, enrolling in the British army is not "literally selling their bodies". Any more than any other job is.

Obviously soldiering is not a job you have much respect for, and no doubt you are entitled to your opinion. Not that it is one that would be shared by a lot of Nepalese I suspect.

As for the history of it all, it is relevant, I suppose, in that it shows we haven't just picked a poor part of the world where we can get squaddies on the cheap. And on the pay, Ghurkas were paid at the same rates as the rest of the (British) Indian army, but those rates were not updated after the Ghurkas came into the British army.

[Adrian II]

No, enrolling in the British army is not "literally selling their bodies". Any more than any other job is.

No, all they have to do is put their lives on the line for fifteen years. Have you been shot at in your 'other job' lately?

[yesdachi]

You mention that

Nepal is in the British Commonwealth

Can you or anyone explain the relationship to me? Wikipedia notes that there is an “agreement of friendship” between the two but I don’t understand how Nepal is such a poor nation if they have a friendship with GB. I’m not implying that GB owes them anything I’m just trying to understand.

[yesdachi]

No, all they have to do is put their lives on the line for fifteen years. Have you been shot at in your 'other job' lately?

I would consider it if I were paid 33 times what my peers from “back home” lived on.

[Adrian II]

Can you or anyone explain the relationship to me? Wikipedia notes that there is an “agreement of friendship” between the two but I don’t understand how Nepal is such a poor nation if they have a friendship with GB. I’m not implying that GB owes them anything I’m just trying to understand.

The British bought the perpetual right to recruit Gurkhas in a 1947 treaty with India and Nepal. Kathmandu has been living off this barter in human lives until the 1970's when it began getting a little trade and tourism income. Gurkha remittances are still a major part of the country's revenue. None of that is spent on the Gurkha peoples themselves. It pays off to keep them poor and living in harsh conditions so that they are both able and willing to serve in the British Army. A bit of colonial smoke and racial make-believe take care of any pangs of conscience. This is how the British and Nepalese governments conserve their favourite 'warrior race'.

Fascinating, isn't it?

Like the production of foie gras really.

[Duke Malcolm]

You're just moody because your country's army doesn't have something nearly as good or special as the Ghurkas...

The British Commonwealth of Nations is a Commonwealth of those Nations which were part of the British Empire (except Mozambique), especially the British Dominions (where HM the Queen is Head of State). They remain "friends" and have good relations...

[Adrian II]

You're just moody because your country's army doesn't have something nearly as good or special as the Ghurkas...

Special my foot.

They have been traded and rented out like human commodity, even in cases where they had to suppress fellow Asians.

In the 1950's and 1960's British Gurkhas were rented out to Malaya, Brunei and Indonesia in order to help suppress their resistance movements. In Malaya these Gurkhas were paid 42 Malayan dollars a month for doing all the dirty work; afterwards the Brits sent the Malayan government a bill to the amount of 450 M$ per Gurkha. And Brunei had to pay 1.5 GBP and foot the entire bill for the Gurkha battalion they 'rented'. Good little money-makers, eh?

Of course many of them were sent home empty-handed. Thousands had to herd livestock and plow the fields well into their 60's and 70s' despite the lack of an arm, a leg or an eye which they had lost in 'British' battles. Some committed suicide in British service because of homesickness and humiliation, others did so afterwards because of loss of face or starvation. It is part of their mountain culture not to speak about your dukkha to others. Hence their proverbial reticence.

'Inscrutable' is the word, I believe?

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

AII-Although we don't pay them nearly enough, are you seriously suggesting that getting rid of our Nepalese regiments would be beneficial to Nepal?

I'm not sure these boys would be very pleased to hear that their one avenue of escape has been removed because it's an imperialist throwback.

[Adrian II]

AII-Although we don't pay them nearly enough, are you seriously suggesting that getting rid of our Nepalese regiments would be beneficial to Nepal?

Are you seriously suggesting that Gurkha recruitment is overseas development aid? Please...

I suggest you do as the French do with their Foreign Legionnaires: normal pay, normal pension, normal benefits and bonuses plus the option of French nationality.

Ah, but that would upset the Indians, wouldn't it? After all they have a similar arrangement with Kathmandu to exploit the Gurkhas since 1947.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Are you seriously suggesting that Gurkha recruitment is overseas development aid? Please...

Erm...I don't think I said anything of the sort. I simply pointed out that stopping recruitment wouldn't solve anything.

I agree with you, we need to pay them more, and they can already gain British nationality.

[Adrian II]

Erm...I don't think I said anything of the sort. I simply pointed out that stopping recruitment wouldn't solve anything.

That makes two of us. I didn't say recruitment had to stop. I just don't buy the Gurkha romance crap.

[Meneldil]

AdrianII, I understand the way Ghurkas are treated right now isn't really great, and that it can be assimilated to some form of 'slavery' (though that's not what I think), but given the current situation in Nepal, these youngsters will probably have a better life working in the british army. Starving in a mountainous area, while waiting for either the communist guerilla or the governement's forces to shot you isn't really exciting.

[Adrian II]

(..) given the current situation in Nepal, these youngsters will probably have a better life working in the British Army.

Sure, I just said so. That is why they can be easily recruited.

But their treatment is part of an exploitative arrangement. India too abuses them. It is using many more Gurkhas than provided by the 1947 treaty, and it is employing them in wars with neighbouring countries in contravention of said treaty. For instance many Gurkhas have died in the Kargill border war with Pakistan, where they have no business being in the first place. Kathmandu is not protesting, nor is it representing the Gurkhas in their conflicts with the British government. These guys are treated like a commodity, just like prostitutes from poor countries.

[Dâriûsh]

I didn’t even know they were still recruited.

[Tribesman]

The British Commonwealth of Nations is a Commonwealth of those Nations which were part of the British Empire (except Mozambique), especially the British Dominions (where HM the Queen is Head of State). They remain "friends" and have good relations...

ahem .... what about Zimbabwe ? Are they good friends . America was part of the Empire , are they in the commonwealth? what about Ireland? Myanamar ,Sudan . All good friends and good relations and all in the commonwealth .