knights in the desert ???

**jadast** · 12-07-2005, 03:37

When I go to the desert I bring alot of Knights. I love them and use them very liberally. Even with fatigue I find I can route most desert dwelling units. I do keep some lighter units for chasing routers.

**Ciaran** · 12-07-2005, 11:00

Just yesterday I realized how bad armor fares in the desert, all my heavily armored units dropped with exhaustion simply standing around. It almost cost me victory, reinforcemts were even worse of, they were crawling (or would have been, were there an animation for that) by the time they reached the rally point.

**The Darkhorn** · 12-07-2005, 14:36

I did some experimenting while playing the Byz in my last campaign. I made sure that none of the units I chose had more than four total armor. IOW, nothing upgraded past 4 either. This is what it was:

(+# - means how many armor upgrades to get to 4; blank means vanilla already at 4)

2 Byz Cavalry
2 Byz Lancers (+1)
2 Steppe Cavalry (+1)
2 Spearmen (+3)
2 Byz Infantry (+1)
1 VG
1 Arb (+1)
2 Pav. Arb. (+1)
2 Tebizond Archers (+2)

Basically, I had to specialize two provinces for each unit type...one in Europe with full upgrades, one in Anatolia or Mid. East with limited upgrade. As such, I used Brigands for archers in Europe and Trebs for archers in the desert.

So, each unit in the army above has exactly 4 armor. Here's my question or probably series of questions. Is it my imagination, or did this army still have some fatigue trouble in the desert? I could swear I "felt" they tired quicker than an army in Europe (this was all subjective mind you. Even in Europe troops standing around for a long time are no longer completely fresh). So, what is the standard here. There are two ways I figure the armor/desert/exhaustion factor, which I hereby dub ADE (i.e. "...however, monkeyslayer127, in my experience ADE really effects this unit. I don't take them into the desert in my armies..."), could work.

A) 5 armor is the magic number. 5 = ADE. 4 = normal

B) 5 armor is not a magic number...just the number at which it gets really critical and really counterproductive. 2 = not much ADE. 4 = some ADE. 5 = okay lads, it's @#$%& hot. 8 = mummies in 5 minutes.

If A applies, then my problem was imaginary. If B applies, I would really like to tweak it next time. I might still use the VG at 4 armor, but I could take vanilla HA with (+1) instead of the Byz Cavalry and lower armor upgrades on everything else by one, making the overall armor 3 rather than 4 with VG exception. Another relevant factor is that if A applies and one finds oneself in a situation having or just desiring to use a unit with 5 or more armor, then the more the better. IOW, if 5 is the magic number, then may as well have 10 (get gold shields). But, if B applies, less armor is still better if taking heavies.
So, which is it?

**BAD** · 12-07-2005, 17:15

I think the actual stat for effective armour in the desert is 3 for infantry and 4 for cavalry. This means they will still tire a little faster than say they would in kinder climates but the armour bonus outweighs this disadvantage. Any higher and the negatives start outweighing the positves by a large amount.

Of course it's always the less armour the better in the desert for fatigue purposes.

PS - Note this means Janissary Heavy Infantry with no Armour upgrades can be used effectively in the desert.

**ichi** · 12-07-2005, 17:33

That's some good work Darkhorn. Definitely B, 5 is no magic number. One can use armor 5 units in a pinch in the dez, but you have to treat them gently and they still get tired too quick.

Try this: go into Custom Battles and make a nice flat summer desert scenario. Give the AI a single unit of elite infantry. Give yourself lots of money.

Now choose 16 cav of various types, give them a wide variety of armor (try taking the Byz or Huns, take some Horse Archers, Sargents, Heavy Cav, Heavy Cav with armor).

Now have them do wind sprints. Line 'em up and run them a certain distance, then turn around and run back to the start. Keep doing this and watch their fatigue levels. Wait between sprints to view recovery.

Then do the same thing with infantry.

Quite revealing.

ichi

**DensterNY** · 12-07-2005, 17:47

I find a heavily armored horsemen too much of a burden in the desert but if you happen to have them there then unmount them if you can. The advantage of having a horse is being able to run them around and the heavy armor cuts this really short. However, heavily armored troops are still effective if you can get the enemy to engage in melee.

I had at first followed the game guide's suggestion and sent my old Urban Militiamen into the desert who did quite well. Later, I sent in some extra CMAA who shredded to pieces anyone within sword reach... I did of course make sure not to chase anyone with them though. I found all in all that desert combat was not that difficult because outside of the exhaustion you mostly faced lightly armored horses and infantry.

**_Aetius_** · 12-07-2005, 21:02

Heavily armoured troops can be invaluable for earlier parts of a crusade, say for example you are the English and you launch a crusade to take Edessa or Syria, you are going to have to travel through Asia Minor which isnt especially damaging to heavily armoured troops.

You can use your CK or Templars etc perfectly easily in Asia Minor, the Byzantine heavy cavalry copes fine in that part of the world and to leave heavily armoured troops behind would seriously handicap your crusade. As you get to the latter stages of a crusade and you enter desert terrain then you can simply remove heavily armoured cavalry from your first wave and replace them with Mounted Sergeants for example.

I think it is always worthwhile to bring heavily armoured troops with you just in case you need them, once you get into desert terrain though they can be destroyed by camels suprisingly easily.