Transgression...what the hell?!

**Revenant69** · 12-07-2005, 20:09

Sorry, a noob question here.
In my Scipii game the Senate has given me a mission to capture the Numidian Iforgetwhatit'scalled town. Being poor (only about 15k dinarii per turn - but spending it to the last cent), I decided to ask my fellow Romans for some financial assitance in equiping a new army and fleet for this endeavour.

My 3 influence diplomat managed to get about 1500 from each one of the Roman factions. However, the next turn I get messages from Julii and Brutii that they don't like my behaviour, yada, yada, yada by bringing up the Transgression scroll. My question is: WHY??? I didn't send any armies through their territories (even though we have Military access), we are still allies (no civil war yet). Could it be because my diplomat went to "negotiate" with Julii and Brutii captains instead of family members? I'm kinda lost. I want to be good to my fellow Romans.

Can anyone tell me why it hapenned? I want to be more carefull in the future and avoid possible triggers for war.

My gratitude to anyone who can enlighten me.

Revenant69

**Conqueror** · 12-07-2005, 20:59

Did you tell them that you're going to attack Numidia if they give you money? If so, you probably should have attacked right away.

**TB666** · 12-07-2005, 23:55

Do you have patch 1.3 ??

**Red Harvest** · 12-08-2005, 05:50

"Transgression" is a largely useless message meant to confuse the player...as best I can tell. There is some sort of flag being tripped, but CA didn't bother to provide an explanatory message, so we end up guessing half the time. Would it have been that hard for them to provide a short message explaining which trigger prompted it? And while you get transgressions from the AI, you can't send a "get out of my yard" type message.

**Rilder** · 12-08-2005, 07:45

there is RH, its called taking an army and conquering several of there cities

**Revenant69** · 12-08-2005, 12:29

Originally Posted by Conqueror

Did you tell them that you're going to attack Numidia if they give you money? If so, you probably should have attacked right away.

Yes I did, and I attacked Numidia a couple of turns later, before the Senate mission expired (numidians were tresspassing on my territory anyway). This is not the first time that I ask for money from my fellow Romans. When the senate gave me a mission to take Appolonia that was held by Macedonians, I borrowed money and sent an expeditionary force there. But by the time it got there the Brutii finally managed to take Appolonia. So I ended up not even declaring war on Macedonians, but money for it was already pocketed

I call that Roman Politics

They didn't complain then, why should they complain now???

Originally Posted by TB666

Do you have patch 1.3 ??

Yes I do.

Originally Posted by Red Harvest

...And while you get transgressions from the AI, you can't send a "get out of my yard" type message.

Yeah, that is largely anoying.
Well, I'm still bamboozled by this event. I guess, I'll just keep on playing and hope that Julii and Brutii will leave me alone.

Revenant69

PS Could this have hapened because of the fact that the Senate loves me more than them???

**Rilder** · 12-08-2005, 15:33

Yes I did, and I attacked Numidia a couple of turns later, before the Senate mission expired (numidians were tresspassing on my territory anyway). This is not the first time that I ask for money from my fellow Romans. When the senate gave me a mission to take Appolonia that was held by Macedonians, I borrowed money and sent an expeditionary force there. But by the time it got there the Brutii finally managed to take Appolonia. So I ended up not even declaring war on Macedonians, but money for it was already pocketed I call that Roman Politics They didn't complain then, why should they complain now???

i think you have to attack on the moment you offer them the attack on faction not a turn later

**Dutch_guy** · 12-08-2005, 17:44

PS Could this have hapened because of the fact that the Senate loves me more than them???

No, this would have happened even if the senate favoured them above you.

When a faction, even allied, thinks you tried to scr*w them ( think diplomatic deal gone wrong - or exeptionally well ) the Ai gives you this message.

Basicly meaning : don't try this again ( ... it might just end our Alliance )

Anyway, getting these messages ins't that big a deal, since you have no way , other than this message, to see if that faction now thinks less of you or that nothing has changed between the both of you.

**Oaty** · 12-08-2005, 21:09

Originally Posted by Revenant69

When the senate gave me a mission to take Appolonia that was held by Macedonians, I borrowed money and sent an expeditionary force there. But by the time it got there the Brutii finally managed to take Appolonia. So I ended up not even declaring war on Macedonians, but money for it was already pocketed

I call that Roman Politics

They didn't complain then, why should they complain now???

That explains it right there. Some diplomatic deals appear to have an expiration. You can only milk diplomatic favours from factions in diplomatic deals for certain things, once about every 30-50 turns. It's to help prevent a player from getting money for each time they attack a faction.

With patch 1.3 I was the Julii and Scipii were assaulting the Carthies. Carthage came up and asked for an alliance. Well I made a counter offer to my favour and made an alliance. A few turns later the Scipii give me the transgression message. And even though they were my ally carthage got assaulted again.

So rule of thumb don't piss off your Roman buddies or it may cost you. But they may be exactly what you want

Anyways all Transgression messages I have gotten have pretty much made sense in a round about way.

**Cras** · 12-09-2005, 11:48

ehmmm how can you attack right away? you basically ask money to built an army...

perhaps you should first built it, then ask the money as your army is at the gates and after receiving it.. attack?

**Revenant69** · 12-09-2005, 14:23

Originally Posted by oaty

That explains it right there. Some diplomatic deals appear to have an expiration. You can only milk diplomatic favours from factions in diplomatic deals for certain things, once about every 30-50 turns. It's to help prevent a player from getting money for each time they attack a faction.

So rule of thumb don't piss off your Roman buddies or it may cost you. But they may be exactly what you want

Thanks, that answered my question. Essentially Julii and Brutii cought up to my little scams with their money and told me not to do it in the future.

Thanks oaty.

**AntiochusIII** · 12-10-2005, 05:36

Originally Posted by Cras

ehmmm how can you attack right away? you basically ask money to built an army...

perhaps you should first built it, then ask the money as your army is at the gates and after receiving it.. attack?

The RTW diplomacy isn't the most detailed or logical.

From what little I know, the trigger for the diplomatic option that you will "Offer to Attack [insert faction name]" is, after the deal is done, required on your part at least one directly aggressive action (be it siege or skirmish or an epic battle).

So you'll have to at least engage in a small skirmish with the Numidians right away after you signed the deal with your fellow Romans to fulfill your promise. You might delay an actual invasion for a while but the state of war (and at least one "engagement") is required to complete your end of the bargain within that turn.

Or they might just be angry with your "extorting" diplomacy. Y'know, they're your rivals and those gold are from their personal treasuries, extorted from the Plebs, of course...

**Oaty** · 12-10-2005, 18:34

I don't think your correct anticohus but then noone knows the exact mechanics of dipomacy. I have agreed to attack factions in diplomatic deals. When I agreed to attack I never did it in the first turn and nothing bad seemed to happen. I'm guessing it's related to senate missions in a way. You either have 5-10 turns to complete your diplomatic deal. It was officially said somewhere that the longer you wait on this deal the more your diplomatic stance goes down

**AntiochusIII** · 12-10-2005, 23:50

Originally Posted by oaty

I don't think your correct anticohus but then noone knows the exact mechanics of dipomacy. I have agreed to attack factions in diplomatic deals. When I agreed to attack I never did it in the first turn and nothing bad seemed to happen. I'm guessing it's related to senate missions in a way. You either have 5-10 turns to complete your diplomatic deal. It was officially said somewhere that the longer you wait on this deal the more your diplomatic stance goes down

Then I suppose I am wrong then. Now if anyone would crack out the code for all to see...

JUST KIDDING!

Then it seems his(?) case looks like basically the two Roman factions consider him extorting money from them in exchange for an attack of a faction they were not at war with. That would normally cause a transgression warning from my experience.