Professor beaten; attackers cite KU creationism class

[solypsist]

LAWRENCE - A professor whose planned course on creationism and intelligent design was canceled after he sent e-mails deriding Christian conservatives was hospitalized Monday after what appeared to be a roadside beating.

http://www.kansas.com/mld/eagle/livi...n/13337930.htm


hmmmm.."Judge not lest ye be judged," seems to be an optional part (one of many, apparently) for American Christian radicals. Why are there so many Christians who feel the only solution to anything they can come up with is violence? Is our society creating these people? People who simply cannot accept that people have differing views or beliefs from their own and think that's justification for violence? I also have to wonder why he was beaten after his proposed class was cancelled.

[KukriKhan]

Smacking him around is, of course, stupid, senseless, and prosecutable, but the guy is not entirely blameless himself:

from the article:
...One recent e-mail from Mirecki to members of a student organization referred to religious conservatives as "fundies," and said a course describing intelligent design as mythology would be a "nice slap in their big fat face." ...

That's like walking onto a bull's field waving a red flag.

[solypsist]

things like that are posted in this very forum all the time. to say they deserve anything but a "warning" or personal opinion deriding their own bad decisions is pretty specious.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Wow, an intolerant professor got a dose of people not being tolerant of intolerance. Maybe if said prof. hadn't been such a jerk, he wouldn't have gotten beat.

Not to mention, he was really stupid for getting out of his car in the first place.

Crazed Rabbit

[Geoffrey S]

Stupid and intolerant he may have been, beating him is not going to change his or anyone else's opinion and is wrong despite the professor's provocation.

[Proletariat]

This sort of hypocrisy seems pretty rampant amongst many religious folk I know. I remember reading a history of the Byzantines and being shocked over the idiotic things people used to riot and wage war over, but maybe things just haven't changed as much as I had thought.

I guess the whole letting he who hasn't sinned thing is for fags.

[Kanamori]

Is our society creating these people? People who simply cannot accept that people have differing views or beliefs from their own and think that's justification for violence?

I don't think so. I think that a society such as ours, where there is little government censorship, fosters tolerance for ideas. But, that tolerance comes from conflicting ideals, and perhaps some people get a little too swept up in the conflict of ideas and take it to a physical level.

He appears to have taken only a mild-beating, not that it's any better or more comforting.

Wow, an intolerant professor got a dose of people not being tolerant of intolerance. Maybe if said prof. hadn't been such a jerk, he wouldn't have gotten beat.

And if the fundamentalists would've agreed w/ him, he wouldn't have been intolerant to them... His being a verbal jackass in no way justifies being beaten, and people should not have to censor themselves in fear of physical retaliation.

[solypsist]

so a personal/political opinion justifies physical violence. okay, you've answered what i wanted to know.

Wow, an intolerant professor got a dose of people not being tolerant of intolerance. Maybe if said prof. hadn't been such a jerk, he wouldn't have gotten beat.

[Proletariat]

I think CR was saying more that provoking people can often lead to unpleasant consequences.

Just because the professor was beaten doesn't mean he isn't a jackass.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

CR was suckered in by Soly's gambit, so we have to give this round to Soly.

Soly carefully labeled the "bad guys" as "American Christian Radicals" and then provided enough info to show how the prof had antagonized them. At least a few yahoos knocked the guy around -- stupid and pointless of them as well as illegal.

Soly was reasonably sure that at least one right-winger would say something vaguely along the lines of what CR said, jumped on it with a quote, and declared victory. He now smurks at any further response having achieved his objective.

CR, my pal, you just charged the skirmishers with your cavalry and landed on the hoplite spears during the follow through -- as Soly intended from the opening post.

[Ldvs]

Soly was reasonably sure that at least one right-winger would say something vaguely along the lines of what CR said, jumped on it with a quote, and declared victory. He now smurks at any further response having achieved his objective.

I expected that as well Admittedly, this professor’s comments weren't the smartest either...

Is our society creating these people? People who simply cannot accept that people have differing views or beliefs from their own and think that's justification for violence?

Considering, it's the people who create the society and not the other way round, it's hardly surprising. Every day, science is pushing the borders of knowledge further. The religions we know were invented in a time when education was scant. The religious played on that lack of knowledge and people's fears to lure them into following their religions (whatever they may be, it's not a specific criticism on Christianity).
Yet some people refuse to acknowledge the truth because when science negates long lasting fallacies, it's not just an assault on their religious beliefs but it's an assault against their whole conception of the world. When someone is cornered, violence is often the only solution at hand.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

All right.

Rest of the thread to go as follows:

Members ignore attempts by a few Christian Conservatives to distance themselves from the incident, pointing out that a few bad apples ( ) don't mean all Christians are stupid or hypocrites.

Anti-religion fundamentalists say Christians (and religious people in general) are stupid and how it should be outlawed and all Christians persecuted for being stupid, hypocrites, and having their own beliefs.

Let the generalizations flow, gentlemen.







Aside: Prole, I don't really mean to indict you, since you won't use this incident to belabor all Christians. I am disappointed that you seem to know many religious hypocrites, and I acknowledge that those in the article are hypocrites themselves.

[Ldvs]

EDIT: Didn't read well enough, can a mod delete this post?

[Kralizec]

You'd have to be pretty insecure about your convictions to take offense from the opinions of some guy you don't even know.

That said, if I was a professor and I knew that my words would be read by a lot of people, I'd be more careful of what I'd say. Was it right to beat him? Of course not. Was it to be expected? Yes.

[Goofball]

What I find most disturbing about this thread is not the fact that a couple of morons beat a guy up in the name of Christ; there have been idiots doing that and worse for thousands of years. It's sad, but nevertheless it's old news.

What I find truly disturbing is that two people so far (one with whom I usually agree, and one with whom I almost never agree, but both of whom I respect) have gone so far as to say that the victim shares some of the blame for his being attacked, because he used words that Christians might disagree with.

That simply boggles the mind.

I know it's cliché, but I'll throw this one out there anyway: Does a woman who was dressed in extremely slutty/revealing clothes share any of the blame for her own rape because she was "asking for it?"

Think about it people.

As my old grandad was always so fond of saying: "Jesus wept..."

[solypsist]

note that his comments were made public by a leaked e-mail. he wastn't standing around on the street with a bullhorn or screaming fire in a crowded theater.

open season on jackasses it is. anyone found to be offensive because of his/her opinion towards a certain group is now eligible to be physically attacked by said group.

woe unto anyone who creates a flash-based animation showing someone being humiliated via cgi - they obviously are in the wrong since real-life abuse is the way to go.

I think CR was saying more that provoking people can often lead to unpleasant consequences.

Just because the professor was beaten doesn't mean he isn't a jackass.

and

Does a woman who was dressed in extremely slutty/revealing clothes share any of the blame for her own rape because she was "asking for it?"

according to some users (and certain people roaming the streets of Kansas), she apparently is.

[KukriKhan]

...but the guy is not entirely blameless himself:

I typed that, but looking back, I regret having done so. The prof shares no blame for his beating.

To Soly's wider question: " Is our society creating these people?" I guess so. It'll be interesting to hear the assaulters' version of events, when they are caught.

[Husar]

I agree, Alexander.

[solypsist]

to be honest I'm mroe interested in the other questions rather than trying to indict a group that is obviously in the minority (if i just wanted to raise toches and pitvchforks i could just post a bunch off fred phelps articles).

so let's drop the christian bashing and instead look at the macro.

Let the generalizations flow, gentlemen.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

The macro, then?

People have been beating other people for saying unpopular things for a long time. I'm sure you could find at least one example for every year since such things were recorded. I think such incidents will continue; this is only interesting in that the beating coincides with a national hot-button issue.

Aside: reading the article, it sounds like the professor was planning a course at odds with what the Kansas State Board of Ed. was planning.

The class was added after the Kansas State Board of Education decided to include more criticism of evolution in science standards for elementary and secondary students.

One recent e-mail from Mirecki to members of a student organization referred to religious conservatives as "fundies," and said a course describing intelligent design as mythology would be a "nice slap in their big fat face." Mirecki has apologized for those comments.

[Louis VI the Fat]

What is a learned man doing in Kansas in the first place? That's just asking for it...

[Proletariat]

note that his comments were made public by a leaked e-mail. he wastn't standing around on the street with a bullhorn or screaming fire in a crowded theater.

Why would the people who felt insulted care?

open season on jackasses it is. anyone found to be offensive because of his/her opinion towards a certain group is now eligible to be physically attacked by said group.

What are you trying to say?

Of course they are eligible. Everyone is eligible to be physically attacked anywhere. Did I say it was right that this professor was attacked? I thought I was pretty clear in stating that this was very wrong.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
While I -naturally- condemn the beating, the whole case seems a clash between two radical camps, common among them being their ultimate idiocy. The so-called creationist campaign against evolution is as stupid as the case of "evolutionists" who take a scientific problem as a faith or rather a counter-faith.


.

[Kralizec]

note that his comments were made public by a leaked e-mail. he wastn't standing around on the street with a bullhorn or screaming fire in a crowded theater.

Point taken. I misread some parts of the article as I was in a hurry. I've read it fully now, and now I have to agree with you.

[Tribesman]

The professor has resigned as head of department , though he still retains his teaching post .
Apperently it is acceptable to question religeous phiosophy if you teach religeous philosophy , but you cannot head the department for teaching religeous philosophy if you question religeous philosophy

[Soulforged]

Why are there so many Christians who feel the only solution to anything they can come up with is violence?

This is not only an atribute of christians. Many people, as people, tend to violence without fitting in any specifical category.

Is our society creating these people?

The answer is no. People tend to be violent if they're not properly educated, adding extremist phylosophies, such as religions, to the equation can lead to this undesirable ends. The context is not important, they existed in all times and places and will appear again.

People who simply cannot accept that people have differing views or beliefs from their own and think that's justification for violence?

Those actions were not justified as they're written in the article. The first thing I'll do is sue them civilly.

I also have to wonder why he was beaten after his proposed class was cancelled.

I think that the only thing this people cared about was the mensage and the freedom of the liberal system in wich, wheter they like it or not, they're living in.

[GoreBag]

People tend to be violent if they're not properly educated, adding extremist phylosophies, such as religions, to the equation can lead to this undesirable ends.

Yeah, listening to Beethoven's 5th is bad too, right? I disagree, my droogie.

open season on jackasses it is.

When is it not?

[doc_bean]

He was doing the right thing, for the wrong reasons. Somebody has to stamp out this ridiculous reactionary anti-intellectual line of reasoning before it gets out of hand, but insults and physical quarrels are not the right way to do it.

He never intended to insult though, but I agree with your post

I don't understand why he resigned as head of his departement.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

I and most of the christians I know believe in evolution, it does not contradict the old testament when evolution is viewed as a tool used by god and 7 days are taken to mean 7 periods of time.
why is it always the nutters that get the attention!, surely this guy has the right to air his views, thats just freedom of speech!

[doc_bean]

I and most of the christians I know believe in evolution, it does not contradict the old testament when evolution is viewed as a tool used by god and 7 days are taken to mean 7 periods of time.

That would be intelligent design (sort of), pretty much what he was going up against...