Professor beaten; attackers cite KU creationism class

[Byzantine Mercenary]

That would be intelligent design (sort of), pretty much what he was going up against...

well in so much as God knew that we would result from evolution given the circumstances on earth

[Mouzafphaerre]

I and most of the christians I know believe in evolution, it does not contradict the old testament when evolution is viewed as a tool used by god and 7 days are taken to mean 7 periods of time.
why is it always the nutters that get the attention!, surely this guy has the right to air his views, thats just freedom of speech!

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That kind of view is not unique to Christians; all sound "people of the books" seem to be thinking and expressing it. A handy example would be the American composer Steve Reich, a devout traditional Jew. Another one is the single most important person on this planet: Me!

Pretty much "evolutionism" can be found in classical and post-classical Islamic bibliography.
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[Seamus Fermanagh]

I don't understand why he resigned as head of his departement.

Possibility #1: He was catching grief for expressing opinions on the school-owned e-mail that some professors found belittling of students. He therefore resigned his hierarchical position so that he publicly dis-associated his private views from the hierarchy of the organization.

Possibility #2: After years of crappy paper work and a slew of extra meetings for the "honor" of being chair over a department who -- like most -- are about as "biddable" as an equivalent-sized herd of cats, the prof used this opportunity to get rid of the hassle and go back to his nice tenured office and let some other schlob play eternal catch-up with all the administrative gunk.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

.
That kind of view is not unique to Christians; all sound "people of the books" seem to be thinking and expressing it. A handy example would be the American composer Steve Reich, a devout traditional Jew. Another one is the single most important person on this planet: Me!

Pretty much "evolutionism" can be found in classical and post-classical Islamic bibliography.
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Indeed, i heard somewhere that some jewish text spoke of god slaying a dragon, before man came along, perhaps this is aluding to the dinosaurs?

[doc_bean]

well in so much as God knew that we would result from evolution given the circumstances on earth

Yep, he's was going to speak against that. Intelligent design is an interpretation of the evolution theory (some would say a rather strange one), as is 'religious atheism' the likes of Dawkins preach.

This is not so much a debate about science as it is about philosophy religion though.

[Tribesman]

I don't understand why he resigned as head of his departement.
Well you have Seamus' option #1&#2 , or you have the official version from the Dean

"Professor Mirecki said he thought it appropriate to step down and did so on the recommendation of his colleagues in the department, and I have accepted his resignation .
This allows the department to focus on what's most important -- teaching, research and service -- and to minimize the distractions of the last couple of weeks."

[Kralizec]

Yep, he's was going to speak against that. Intelligent design is an interpretation of the evolution theory (some would say a rather strange one), as is 'religious atheism' the likes of Dawkins preach.

This is not so much a debate about science as it is about philosophy religion though.

Not necessarily. You're not an ID supporter if you admit basing your beliefs on faith, and not claiming it as a scientific theory. ID supporters are different in that they try to present their views as "scientific", reasoning that life is to complex to have been the result of random mutations and natural selection.

[Crazed Rabbit]

so a personal/political opinion justifies physical violence. okay, you've answered what i wanted to know.

This reminds me of something...

Number 2 probably comes closest to what you did, though I didn't even put forth an arguement, just commented.

And since when does not expressing surprise at an event mean I agree with what happened? If I were to say something like 'wow, another terrorist bombing in Iraq' would I then automatically support terrorist bombings in Iraq? Perhaps you could prove when I said anything similar to what you stated...oh, what's that you can't? Wow. Big surprise there.

I grow tired of this silliness.

Crazed Rabbit

P.S. One wonders what the prof said when he got out of his truck-a terribly stupid thing to do-and if he was lying about the reasons the men attacked him.

[Xiahou]

P.S. One wonders what the prof said when he got out of his truck-a terribly stupid thing to do-and if he was lying about the reasons the men attacked him.

You know, I had thought that the whole incident sounded more like road rage than anything else, given the situation that it occurred in. Also, given that the guy clearly hates Christian fundamentalists I wouldn't be totally blown away to discover that he attributed it to them after the fact. Of course, I have no evidence at all to say that's how it happened... then again he has no evidence at all to support his version either does he?

[Crazed Rabbit]

CR, my pal, you just charged the skirmishers with your cavalry and landed on the hoplite spears during the follow through -- as Soly intended from the opening post.

Yes, but this is RTW 1.0, and I've got cataphracts, which charge, completely undetered, through his hoplites, knocking them wildly about like bowling pins.


Crazed Rabbit

[Soulforged]

Yeah, listening to Beethoven's 5th is bad too, right? I disagree, my droogie.

No it isn't and I'm not sure where you want to go with that statement.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Conservatives ------------------ Enviormentalist wackos


Hmmm sounds like global warming.

[Redleg]

You know, I had thought that the whole incident sounded more like road rage than anything else, given the situation that it occurred in. Also, given that the guy clearly hates Christian fundamentalists I wouldn't be totally blown away to discover that he attributed it to them after the fact. Of course, I have no evidence at all to say that's how it happened... then again he has no evidence at all to support his version either does he?

Well in his own words

University of Kansas religious studies professor Paul Mirecki said that the two men who beat him made references to the class that was to be offered for the first time this spring.

Since the two men who beat him have not been caught - several comments on this thread are really kind of unfounded - to include the individual who started the thread.

She said Mirecki reported he was attacked around 6:40 a.m. in rural Douglas County south of Lawrence. Mirecki told the Lawrence Journal-World that he was driving to breakfast when he noticed the men tailgating him in a pickup truck.

I wonder where he actually lives in relationship to the University of Kansas - I know lots of the rural roads around the Douglas County area because my wife's family lives outside of Lawerence on one of these rural roads.... especially when Yahoo.com people search gives an address for the same named individual inside the city of Lawerence.


Interesting what you can find on the internet isn't?

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?add...zip=66046-4541

Something about the story doesn't add up - the area for the address is not rural - and near address is about 6 good breakfast restraunts within 5 miles - that are not in the rural areas. Only town south of Lawerence is Ottawa and there is a one horse town inbetween - but I can't remember if it has a breakfast place or not.

http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?add...zip=66046-4541

Could it be he was beaten up for reason not associated with his teaching - but something else....... One must wonder about the other possiblities with the lack of evidence associated with only his story being told.


Try searching your name on the internet - it could just scare you what information is available for public consumption about yourself.

[KukriKhan]

OK, let's put this topic on the backburner for awhile, until more concrete information emerges. What we have now is a reported assault, with attendant cuts and bruises, in a highly charged political environment, and motives on all sides being attributed by the world at large.

All we here at the Org can do is speculate and extrapolate from that speculation - an interesting pastime, to be sure - but one that, experience shows, makes us focus more on each other than on the meat of the issue.

Therefore: temporarily closed for comment until the story develops further. Thanks to all contributors

[KukriKhan]

TheLJ-World, local Kansas newspaper,hascontinuing coverage here:
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/de...ing/?evolution

Thread reopened after this tip from Redleg. Let's stay on-topic and civil.

[Redleg]

Yes indeed - I particlurly like this part of the article - its brings to question what is indeed the details of the attack. No suspects have been caught from the reading I have done -and lots of questions remain unclear and/or unanswered.

Key facts about the reported attack remained unclear Tuesday, including exactly where it happened. A report released by the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office said the location was “unknown” and listed it as south of 31st Street on either East 1400 Road or East 1500 Road.

Louisiana Street turns into East 1400 Road outside the city limits. Haskell Avenue becomes East 1500 Road.

Also, there was conflicting information about whether Mirecki reported it at the scene or at the hospital. In an interview Monday with the Journal-World, he said he called police from the side of the road, but sheriff’s officials said they were dispatched to the hospital.

Mirecki declined to clarify the discrepancy when asked about it Tuesday outside the sheriff’s office.

“I can; I just don’t want to,” he said.

[Bartix]

Same caption ------------------ Big Bad Oil/Bush Adm.


Hmmm sounds exactly like global warming.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Yahoo People Search doesn't cover "the rest of the world". Am I safe now?
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[Crazed Rabbit]

Wow, it is scary what you can find on the net.

And it looks like our dear professor has been spinning some lies recently. And talk about a good description-2 white guys in a pickup truck in Kansas. They'll stand right out, I imagine.

Crazed Rabbit

[Redleg]

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Yahoo People Search doesn't cover "the rest of the world". Am I safe now?
.

Who knows -

[Viking]

Conservatives ------------------ Enviormentalist wackos


Hmmm sounds like global warming.

Same caption ------------------ Big Bad Oil/Bush Adm.


Hmmm sounds exactly like global warming.

Splendid.

[Kralizec]

Good god, it's a comic! If either Gawain or Bartix had a sense of humour he'd have posted another political cartoon or something, instead of trying to ruin the joke.

Not to mention that the comparison creationists=environmentalists hold no water.
Researchers gathered data on climate change and industrial activity and formulated a theory that may be wrong or right.
Creationists on the other hand read a dusty book written and compiled thousends of years ago, call it "intelligent design theory" and then try to be accepted in the scientific community. Global warming is a theory whose support is unfortunately is tainted by political motivations, but ID was never science to begin with.

[PanzerJaeger]

Why are there so many Christians who feel the only solution to anything they can come up with is violence?

Why are there so many idiots who feel wrongdoing by a few Christians among billions is an indictment of the whole religion?

This country is vastly Christian, yet it has one of the most offensive and vocal anti-Christian elements found in the world, and all you can do is produce some beating in Kansas to support such an ignorant claim.

The real question should be: Why are Christians in the Western World so tolerant of people who hate them living in their midst, when other religions around the world resort to beheadings and slaughter of infidels?

Christians are extremely tolerant people, but if you look hard enough, and you want to make a point bad enough, you can find dirt on any type of affiliation so huge as a religion.

[Byzantine Prince]

Why are there so many idiots who feel wrongdoing by a few Christians among billions is an indictment of the whole religion?

Because of the brasen hypocrisy.

[doc_bean]

The real question should be: Why are Christians in the Western World so tolerant of people who hate them living in their midst, when other religions around the world resort to beheadings and slaughter of infidels?

Ah come on, there's only one religion doing that these days.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Islam is on the whole, a tolerant religion, during the crusades and later they have behaved very tolereantly towards Jews and christians, to this day there are many christian and jewish comunitys in muslim countrys.
of course just like with christians there are a few fundamentalists who give the rest a bad name.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Islam? Tolerant?

I suggest you read this.

They began waging a holy war on the rest of the world from the time of Mohammed. Their 'prophet's' instructions were to convert people to Islam, tax them if they didn't convert, and kill them if they didn't pay the tax. Even if they paid the tax, they were oppressed second class citizens with no right to self defense ot free practice of religion.

For hundreds of years the armies of Islam ramapged about, slaughtering whole cities. The Crusades were a defensive response.

Crazed Rabbit

[Kralizec]

The crusades to the holy land (wich most people are thinking about when talking about "the" crusades) were certainly not defensive. They were set out to conquer territories that had been inhabitated by muslims for centuries already. That'd be like England launching an invasion of America and calling it a "defensive move". And while on their way, the crusaders killed thousends upon thousends of people- not only muslims as one would expect, but jews too.

That is not to say, muslims were somehow better then christians. But burning down villages and enslaving the survivors was common practice in pre-industrial times, and christians did it too.

[Mouzafphaerre]

Islam? Tolerant?

I suggest you read this.

They began waging a holy war on the rest of the world from the time of Mohammed. Their 'prophet's' instructions were to convert people to Islam, tax them if they didn't convert, and kill them if they didn't pay the tax. Even if they paid the tax, they were oppressed second class citizens with no right to self defense ot free practice of religion.

For hundreds of years the armies of Islam ramapged about, slaughtering whole cities. The Crusades were a defensive response.

Crazed Rabbit

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Go read a textbook or two and get your facts straight before spreading such bulshit around.
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[AntiochusIII]

For hundreds of years the armies of Islam ramapged about, slaughtering whole cities. The Crusades were a defensive response.

So you're telling me people like Reynald de Chatillon was a defender of truth, justice, and Christianity? You're saying that the Franks who invaded Palestine were DEFENDERS? Very funny.

If it's the Byzantine empire that engaged in the war then that MIGHT be an aggressive defense or some attempts at resurgence, but here we find ambitious Feudal lords from Western Europe sailing to take some lands for themselves. The Islamic expansion Westward stopped centuries before the Crusades start.

You know, right, that the Crusaders when first stepped into Jerusalem started killing everybody around them--Christians, Jews, or Muslims--who happened to be in their way.