the difference between "wrong" and "criminal"

[English assassin]

OK, here's an unfortunate case:

Now, I want to say at the outset that its obvious that what this boy did was wrong. OK?

So, a 16 year old boy videos himself having (consensual) sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Unfortunately he doesn't ask her first. (WRONG). They watch the video together, the video is eventually wiped (it wasn't being touted round the school or anything) but one way or another she reports it to the police and as a result he gets a conviction for voyeurism and is now a registered sex offender.

I can't help thinking that is pretty tough beans on a 16 year old who made one stupid mistake.

It seems to me that we are getting a bit to quick to equate wrong behaviour with criminal behaviour, especially when it comes to young people. I mean, sure, I know damn well you mustn't video yourself having sex with someone without their agreement (or do anything else without their agreement) but when you are 16 and hornier than a tomcat with 3 balls I think maybe some sort of leeway should be given? You are finding out about relationships and such like, it doesn't seem quite right that you get clobbered for a mistake the way an adult would.

For the same reason I am a bit wary of moves to redefine "consent" in rape trials where alcohol is involved. The fact is a drunken consent IS a consent (if its not then I for one have certainly been raped on a number of ocassions), unless of course you are so drunk its obvious you can't consent to anything or even have much idea what's going on. And, again, OK at my age you know to be careful if she is three sheets to the wind (and indeed to be careful if she's not), but when you are 17? There's going to be an awful lot of 17 year old rapists around soon.

Teenagers make mistakes, its part of learning and growing up. I'm not sure we should be jumping on them with the criminal law the first time they fail to act like a 35 year old.

[Ja'chyra]

I haven't read any details but I am unsure how he got convicted on her say so, if the film was wiped and only those two saw it how can she prove there ever was a film made?

I also agree that drunken consent still is consent, if you can't trust yourself then don't drink, it's your life take responsibility for it.

[doc_bean]

Does his criminal record get erased when he turns 18 ? That's what happens here afaik.

I haven't read any details but I am unsure how he got convicted on her say so, if the film was wiped and only those two saw it how can she prove there ever was a film made?

Maybe he confessed ? Didn't see what he was admitting to ?

I also agree that drunken consent still is consent, if you can't trust yourself then don't drink, it's your life take responsibility for it.

Indeed
Date rape is so often used as a weapon by women, it's a real shame since it makes it more difficult for real victims to be believed.

[English assassin]

Yeah, he told the truth. That'll teach him. As far as I can tell he really isn't a sex beast.

And no his criminal record won't be wiped at 18.

[doc_bean]

Yeah, he told the truth. That'll teach him.

Aren't you a lawyer ? You should know how bad telling the truth can be for you, even if it seems like you didn't really do anything wrong...

As far as I can tell he really isn't a sex beast.

No more than the average teenager presumably.

And no his criminal record won't be wiped at 18.

Harsh. I don't think we even have a registered sex offender list, and even if we had, I'd doubt something like that would get you on it

[bmolsson]

The difference between wrong and criminal is to get caught....

[Proletariat]

Yeah, the line 'Yeah, I had a wine cooler before we had sex so you completely violated my body!' is pretty much hogwash. Most everyone, male or female, has had a drink and done something stupid in their life. For men it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal.

Maybe if women weren't told so often that rape is around every single corner of their life and if they ever get raped they'll be mentally destroyed forever, they wouldn't over react to this sort of thing so often.

On topic, it's a shame this kid now has this criminal charge hanging over his head. Of course what he did was stupid, but doing stupid things as a teenager is part of growing up and learning.

[KukriKhan]

Originally Posted by English assassin
And no his criminal record won't be wiped at 18

That is surprising, that youth crimes will follow one into adulthood. Is this true for all juvenile offenses, or just felonies?

[Fragony]

The difference between wrong and criminal is to get caught....

[Byzantine Prince]

The difference between wrong and criminal is to get caught....

Pure genius...

[Oaty]

And I'm the one who didn't get caught.

[Fragony]

And I'm the one who didn't get caught.

Good, gimme the tapes.

[Soulforged]

So, a 16 year old boy videos himself having (consensual) sex with his 16 year old girlfriend. Unfortunately he doesn't ask her first. (WRONG). They watch the video together, the video is eventually wiped (it wasn't being touted round the school or anything) but one way or another she reports it to the police and as a result he gets a conviction for voyeurism and is now a registered sex offender.

It was correctional I suppose or do 16 year old boys get full prison?

It seems to me that we are getting a bit to quick to equate wrong behaviour with criminal behaviour, especially when it comes to young people. I mean, sure, I know damn well you mustn't video yourself having sex with someone without their agreement (or do anything else without their agreement) but when you are 16 and hornier than a tomcat with 3 balls I think maybe some sort of leeway should be given? You are finding out about relationships and such like, it doesn't seem quite right that you get clobbered for a mistake the way an adult would.

I totally agree with you here EA, and will say that the state sadly has in many cases the support of the people who only understands the desvalue of the action, not the illicit. It's a problem, and must be corrected if we don't want to see public lynchings.

Teenagers make mistakes, its part of learning and growing up. I'm not sure we should be jumping on them with the criminal law the first time they fail to act like a 35 year old.

That's the problem of people believing that penal law is the prima ratio to "correct" problems, when in fact when it arrives all is already messed up. People usually think that if they see something that morally seems to be wrong they must use penal law giving more power to the state and punishing everybody as hard as they can to correct the person as if he/she was a dog.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Life Lesson 1: Deny everything.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The difference between wrong and criminal is to get caught....

There's another entry for my quote database.

[GoreBag]

How was it proven if the tapes were wiped?

[Kralizec]

That's messed up.

Did she report it immediately after she found out the truth? Or did she do it at a later time when they broke up?