Unintended diplomacy

[Mouzafphaerre]

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As the Goth horde I blackmail the Eastern Empire, they don't bend and I besiege Tessaloniki and Athina. Their as well as my allies, the Western Empire, prefer to line up with me in the conflict. All fine and at the beginning of the next turn my general shouts "break off the siege". A drop of message states that I have made a ceasefire with the Eastern Empire and that the two halves are allies again.

What's this? I haven't dealt with any emissary.
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[Kekvit Irae]

A and B are allies
A and C are enemies
B and C become allies, which makes A a vicarious friend
A and C automaticly make a ceasefire.

That's the way I see it, anyway

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Weird. Never happened before...or at least I wasn't aware.
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[AntiochusIII]

That's normal. It happened since 1.0. Pretty annoying, too, especially if the "alliance" case involves protectorates. I suppose the WRE wasn't allied to either you or the ERE until you and the ERE are at war. So when they become an ally of both they "arrange the peace between two allies."

[Mouzafphaerre]

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I was allied with the WRE since before I became a horde; I waged war at ERE after that, while I was still allied with WRE.

After that happened I reordered the siege and the WRE again kept their alliance with me and broke it off with the ERE. Absolutely no reason for making the previous step. In any case how come they decide on my actions?
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[AntiochusIII]

So then, the case must be that after you besieged the ERE cities, the WRE allied itself with ERE, that resulting in automatic ceasefire between you and the ERE, who are both allies to WRE now. Perhaps CA wishes to prevent glitches of two allies of a third party faction fighting each other. It is automatic...RTW's diplomacy is never the best, after all, so this weird factor is just another flaw.

Basically, they decide on your actions just because...the code says so.

The fact that the WRE chose to remain allied with you after you renew the war could mean that they value your alliance more (whatever numbers & factors they use) even though they also seek to ally with the ERE. It is possible that they might just ally with the ERE again next turn or two and put you back in ceasefire mode...

Or it could be that the AI is more subtle than we thought and the ERE simply exploits its own flaws to save its cities from your invasion by pushing for an alliance with the WRE to exploit that alliance-peace "feature"...

[Mouzafphaerre]

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It's not full automatic though. When two of my allies (in my Hun campaign), the Burgunds and Vandals engaged I was asked to choose one side the MTW way.
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[Red Harvest]

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As the Goth horde I blackmail the Eastern Empire, they don't bend and I besiege Tessaloniki and Athina. Their as well as my allies, the Western Empire, prefer to line up with me in the conflict. All fine and at the beginning of the next turn my general shouts "break off the siege". A drop of message states that I have made a ceasefire with the Eastern Empire and that the two halves are allies again.

What's this? I haven't dealt with any emissary.
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I never saw this until 1.3. It is extremely annoying and illogical. The player should be given a diplomatic option to: 1. accept the ceasefire or 2. break his alliance. Frankly, given the choice I would rather have #2 as the "automatic." #1 makes no sense.

[Mouzafphaerre]

I never saw this until 1.3. It is extremely annoying and illogical. The player should be given a diplomatic option to: 1. accept the ceasefire or 2. break his alliance. Frankly, given the choice I would rather have #2 as the "automatic." #1 makes no sense.

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Agreed. (We need a "yes" animation with a sad face... Time to reinstall Animation Shop.)
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[Celt Centurion]

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Agreed. (We need a "yes" animation with a sad face... Time to reinstall Animation Shop.)
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Can anyone say why

"alliance" is sometimes not an option to even ask for?

or sometimes when a diplomat speaks to somebody,

nothing comes up on the diplomacy offers or demands screen.

Presently, I am as the Greeks, and still need to eliminate or outlast Thrace.

The problem is that unless I am a Roman faction under orders to attack a neutral faction, I don't. It's just a thing with me, I don't like to commit the first act of aggression. Once attacked however, I have no problem at all with attacking with a vengeance.

Presently, Scythia and Thrace are at war with each other. I have trade rights with Thrace, but as I said, I am not one to backstab. My Diplomat in Scythia has offered both money and map information to Scythia twice with a demand to attack Thrace, and they have accepted, but at the moment, from the Black Sea to beyond Luvavum, Thrace and I share a common border until we both meet up with the Britons near Mogontiacum. I have sent a band of peasants to "wander" around Thrace hoping they will be attacked, but so far nothing, not even a "transgression" message.

I want to attempt to create an alliance with Scythia so that I may be standing by the next time Thrace attacks them, but whenever my diplomat approaches Scythia, "alliance" is not one of the options.

Is there anything I can do?

I have never seen Thrace this strong before! What keeps them from being dangerous is they are mostly still small towns with barbarian technology. Most of what I have is Large City technology, and a decent line of huge cities with foundrys all across there.

Therefore, I have armies with armored hoplites retrained into "silver" quality armor minimum, but so far have no desire to "attack" a neutral faction.

It's really frustrating trying to be the "good guys."

Suggestions, besides the obvious of just attack them?

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Byzantine Mercenary]

make an offer to thrace that they cannot except or is very in your favour with the threat of military action.
surely setting the scythians on them is just as bad?

[AntiochusIII]

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It's not full automatic though. When two of my allies (in my Hun campaign), the Burgunds and Vandals engaged I was asked to choose one side the MTW way.
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IF you're an ally of two formerly neutral factions, and they get to war, you got to choose allies.

IF but if you're the one to get involved in the war, then an ally of both you and your opponent will have to choose sides; just like the above.

However, if an ally of only one of the sides (who are ALREADY at war) signed alliance with another side, automatic peace is achieved...

For a hypothetical example,

WRE, ERE, Goths.

Case 1: You're Goths. You had alliance with both WRE and ERE, who were neutral with each other, then they started a war against each other. Now you have to choose sides.

Case 2: You're WRE. You had alliance with the Goths and neutral with ERE. The Goths was also allied to ERE. Then, you started a war. The Goths will have to choose sides.

Case 3: You're Goths again. You're allied with ONLY the WRE, neutral with ERE. The WRE and the ERE are at war. Then, you sign alliance with ERE too: automatic ceasefire between WRE and ERE.

Applies to both players and AI-controlled factions.

...since at least 1.2, I'm quite sure it's 1.0, in fact.

Is there anything I can do?

I don't know how to be good. Sorry.

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