!@#% ballistas on siege towers!

[Sirrvs]

Hi all, I was wondering if there's a way I can mod my game files to get rid of the ballista arrows that fire from siege towers in the latest patch. I'm not sure, but did these things really exist in ancient Rome and were they THAT accurate that they can pick off individual wall sentries while firing from a atop a moving/rocking siege tower??

[Red Harvest]

Use the search function or scan down a few pages and you will find recent threads on this, here and in the mod section.

Historically siege towers were indeed used to clear defenders from the walls. The problem was the AI didn't use this feature before. Fire rate can be edited, rapidity of fire is the main complaint.

One mistake many people make is in believing that a single weapon is firing at them. Instead, multiple firing points are available on the towers (as in real life for archers and ballistae.)

One can certainly complain about the rate of fire and what cultures should be able to build towers, etc. However the general effect is correct in a "rock-paper-scissors" sense: towers should kill defenders on the wall unless the defenders can destroy the tower.

[TB666]

Personally I don't understand why you want to remove it.
It gives the AI a better chance at winning a seige then before since these things can really destroy the morale for the guys on the wall.
So in a way you are removing a challenge from a game.

[Kekvit Irae]

[Sirrvs]

Personally I don't understand why you want to remove it.

Simply because it's unrealistic. Why do those things fire so fast and accurately when the ballistas on the wall towers and in the field can't hit crap?
Anyway, the last time I searched the forum no one had posted anything on this yet. That's why I asked. Thanks for directing me to the other threads though.

[Red Harvest]

It isn't unrealistic though in its effect of sweeping the walls of defenders, that was a major function of siege towers, both mobile and immobile. Read about a few of the ancient sieges. Building platforms or mobile siege towers to get above the defenders was a key aspect of sieges of walled cities. Once the besiegers have towers, they are dangerous not just because they can fight on the walls, but because they can shoot *down* onto the walls defender. The tower fire should be a serious threat.

What *looks* odd is that the firing appears to be sequential and from a single point. However, it is not coming from one point if you look closely, it is emanating from 5 points on the smaller towers, and 8 on the larger ones. They don't volley fire, instead shooting sequentially. The result is that the fire rate appears to be 5 to 8 times what it actually is. The reload time is very short and that is worth changing. Typical archer reload is 6 seconds in the game, while the towers take 1.5 seconds per firing point (once every 0.2 to 0.3 seconds depending on the tower size.) I went to 3.0 as it appears more natural. I tried 6.0, but it was too slow to represent the danger the towers present, at least on the smaller towers.

[Epistolary Richard]

I believe you can change siege tower reload rates in descr_walls.txt - some of the tower entries are for siege towers and you can change reload_ticks_arrow and reload_ticks_ballista

[TB666]

Simply because it's unrealistic. Why do those things fire so fast and accurately when the ballistas on the wall towers and in the field can't hit crap?
Anyway, the last time I searched the forum no one had posted anything on this yet. That's why I asked. Thanks for directing me to the other threads though.

Maybe but you will make the game easier by removing or lowering the fire-rate.

[Red Harvest]

I believe you can change siege tower reload rates in descr_walls.txt - some of the tower entries are for siege towers and you can change reload_ticks_arrow and reload_ticks_ballista

No, it is in descr_engines.txt as memory serves. You have really good control of the projectiles for siege engines there...you can change reload time, position of the missile fire point, number of firing points, number of missiles per firing point, hitting power, AP, body piercing, range, and type of missile (even create a new one if you add it to the projectiles_new file.)

[Red Harvest]

Maybe but you will make the game easier by removing or lowering the fire-rate.

Removing it would both make it easier to defend a siege and be unrealistic. Adjusting the fire rate is reasonable though--RTW is too fast paced in some regards, and the fire rate of towers reflects this. So it makes some sense to adjust this, particularly if you play without the timer so that you don't need to have things happen instantly. (The timer might have been a factor in CA setting the fire rate so high.)

I almost never have to defend vs. towers...but I use them a lot, so reducing the fire rate actually handicaps me more than the AI. That suits me well.

I like that CA added this nuance to the game...it is unfortunate that the way it is deployed appears machine gun like and that the fire rate is so high. If they fired in volleys it might look better (although the effect would be the same, it wouldn't look rapid fire.) It is a matter of personal preference and depends on any other mods, but I found cutting the firing rate in half was about right for my tastes. Cutting it to 1/4 was too much for me.

There isn't a "right answer" with respect to fire rate...except to say that having no firing from the towers is unrealistic. Towers should indeed be a serious missile threat to wall defenders--I see the judgement call as in one of the degree of that threat. To me, "serious" should not equal "instant death" but at the same time "serious" should mean that wall defenders will suffer considerable casualties if they try to stand their ground as the tower approaches the wall.