Show Error Oddity for Missile Units

[Red Harvest]

I haven't used Show error much in 1.3 modding, I used it sparingly in 1.2. I recently turned it back on as I was having some trouble with a unit addition recently. Unfortunately, it was useless to me because there is a problem with it...if you increase the range of javelin units, it kicks out a warning about max javelin range being 50. It doesn't seem to check what the range is based on velocity in projectile_new...but is instead using a hard coded value in the error checker. So if I close the game or CTW with show error, then I get that inaccurate message...and not what I needed to know.

It picks the first unit (barb peltast gaul) to show the error, then doesn't reveal any others. If I change that back to 50 then it goes to the next unit, the german peltast and so on. It isn't very helpful.

[lt1956]

In the projectile file you need to increase the velocity for the missile. Once you do that the error message wont happen. In a sense its good as I never notived the increase in velocity makes them fire farther. lol So here I thought 170 was correct and really it wasnt. There are some good things about 1.3 but there are many bad. Hopefully their new patch will fix this issues, but then again they may make new ones?

[Red Harvest]

lt1956,

No, increasing the velocity is definitely not what I want to do unless CA has changed something substantial with velocities from 1.2 to 1.3. Even though I increased the range to 60 meters I *cut* the velocity because the *default* velocity gives a range of 92 meters. I have it set to 25 now which gives them a range of about 64 meters. The default velocity (30) results in them hurling javelins 92 meters into the opponents' backs if the opponent is being shot at and tries to withdraw. Also reducing the velocity prevents them from throwing up at men on walls so easily. (Because in reality, even if the javelin struck a man on a high wall it would likely hit at a shallow angle and deflect or have so little resultant velocity at the vertical, that its hitting/penetrating power would be negligible--velocity/energy it regains when it falls back to ground level.)

I did the same sort of thing for pila and for archers. I can't see why you would want to increase the arrow velocity. It is already sufficient for 235 meters.

Another plus from reducing velocities is that the range differences from high ground to low ground become substantial. Firing uphill becomes a real challenge, while units on a hill have good reach.

Those who leave in flaming arrows should cut their velocity down in a big way (the velocity is seperate from the standard arrow.) That will restrict flaming arrows range as they should be, while keeping overall range where you want.

[lt1956]

Um I was just answering your question, you asked why they were telling you the range was wrong. Ify ou change the velocity those error message will disappear.

Its caused by the fact that NO MATTER what you set the distance to in the unit file, the velocity still controls the range. In 1.3 they did fix the velocities to allow greater range for their missile units. But if you are using your 1.2 modded game files with 1.3 your will get messages explaining that you cant do that even though it works, because you are NOT getting 170 etc. So the game with 1.3 will tell you the highest distance you can go with the velocity setting you made.

Ify ou dont believe me fine, but that is why you are getting the error and most likely why no one has replied but me.

Just trying to help, just change the velocity in a test and see if those messages go away? :-)

[Red Harvest]

lt1956,

I'm not upset with you, sorry if it came off that way. The unit I added was a melee unit that had some spacing issues in the units file entry. (I caught all but one of them and turned on show error when I couldn't figure out what the last was.) That was when I got the javelin message from units that appeared to be working fine that I modded weeks ago.

Yes, I understood how velocity and range interplay. I figured that out long ago and posted extensively on it back in 1.1/1.2. However, it looks like they've done something new. I've done further testing tonight and there has clearly been some rework of the way range is being figured by RTW 1.3. As you say, the velocities are now not corresponding with the ranges like they used to. There is different behaviour now when the range exceeds what the velocity allows. Before in 1.0/1.1/1.2 you could see that the unit wasn't firing, although the icon showed it in range. Now it doesn't get the icon indicating it is in range, but without being able to fire...so there is no cue to tip me off: it looks normal, but nothing happens. As a result I've had to go to 28 m/sec for 60 meter jav range (message indicates that velocity is good up to 63 range.) 21 m/sec still works for 35 meter default pila range, but with the changes that have been made to 1.3 I will bump it back up a notch or two as pila range is already very short as a practical matter.

Remember, a primary reason for changing the velocities was the "excess range" effect seen in 1.0/1.1/1.2 when units were at lower elevation or when the enemy was trying to run away. It was really noticeable with default jav velocity using 65 jav range...as enemy troops were getting hit well past slinger range when they tried to run away from javelins for instance. Once the firing sequence started, it was going to finish...as long as the velocity was there. That seems to have changed for 1.3 to some extent, so I don't have to compensate for it as much.