Backstabbing your allies?

**King Kurt** · 12-13-2005, 14:40

In my current Irish hard VI game I am allied with the Saxons and Mercians. They seem to be at war with Mercia invading then deciding not to fight and withdrawing for the last few turns. I am tempted to dive in to tip the balance but I am not sure how the game will handle this - assuming I invade the saxon province at the same time as the Mercians, what options will I be offered - could I side with the Saxons or will I be helping the Mercians - anybody got any ideas?

**lugh** · 12-13-2005, 14:43

You shouldn't still be allied with both, it normally pops up "you're allies have gone to war, will you remain allies with the Mercians? This will negate your alliance with the Saxons" or somesuch.
Check your diplomatic status, it likely your only allied with one of them now.

**King Kurt** · 12-14-2005, 11:28

Originally Posted by lugh

You shouldn't still be allied with both, it normally pops up "you're allies have gone to war, will you remain allies with the Mercians? This will negate your alliance with the Saxons" or somesuch.
Check your diplomatic status, it likely your only allied with one of them now.

Lugh - you must be psyhcic!! I checked my allies - I am with the Saxons, but not the Mercians . The Mercians were beseiging the Saxons capital, I attacked, as did the Saxons, resulting in the Mercians retreating. My forces were moved back to Gwent and I got a message saying I had helped raise the seige and the Saxons were very appreciative - don't send thanks, how about a few Huscarls!! - As the Northunbrians attacked the Mercians as well, it looks like open season on Brummies.

Also, for some reason, the Welsh, who only have Cornwall now, attacked the Saxons in Devon, so I might go and help my Saxon chums down there.

**Weebeast** · 12-13-2005, 14:54

^Have not you been asked to pick side by the time the first attack ended? I kinda don't catch the situation.

As for the backstabbing, I don't really backstab for no reason. I usually try to find a real reason other than expansion purpose. Say Faction A refuses to court my Prince or whatever than the alliance should not preserve. Lets just say I'm offended. I also get temptation to capture ally's royal(usually king) on battle field but I haven't been able to do that. I'm too nice.

It is a pain in the butt when your ally brings more troops to the battlefield and gets the province in the end. I'm always tempted to pull back. It's mentally challenging though. I usually fight anyway when I know it's gonna be a huge battle.

**matteus the inbred** · 12-13-2005, 15:16

if i knew my allied faction leader didn't have an heir, i would probably take him out on the battlefield, ally or not, but you never really know when the AI is going to choose to support you, you can't guarantee killing him off as he might fight his way out and get away, and sometimes you need allies to buffer you from other powerful factions or the Horde. the situation might occur when it'd be worth it, but only once in a blue moon. you could use it to make a fast buck, but you'd then find yourself with a second war on your hands, so it'd better be a damn big ransom!

**miho** · 12-13-2005, 17:37

I don't backstab for no reason. I choose my allies carefully so that I don't have to attack them the next turn. But for powerfull nations like the horde it's wise to accept their offer. Also if someone wants to marry my heir I let them no mather what the faction.

**Martok** · 12-13-2005, 20:21

I generally don't attack my allies unless they've seriously pissed me off. Of course, what consititutes "pissing me off" can differ.

My current Danish campaign is actually a pretty good example. The Novgorods refused to let my prince marry their princess *after* I'd already given my princess to one of their boys (which I rarely do--I usually keep my daughters so I can marry them to good generals/governors who have low loyalty).

Then on top of that, they sent a large army to "help" me conquer Prussia; I had invaded with nearly 1000 men, and definitely did not need their assistance! Fortunately for me, the Nov army was led by the Grand Prince himself, and was accompanied by one of his sons. Needless to say, the People of Novgorod suffered a grevious loss that day. Oh yeah, and I of course defeated the Prussians as well.

That example is one of the few times where I've attacked an ally, however. Given that your faction leader loses influence for going to war with your buddies, I prefer to play nice as long as my allies don't mess with me.

**Third spearman from the left** · 12-14-2005, 01:06

Hi all, for all of you playing mod games (such as myself, XL Volgas,early) I have found it a lot easier to gain allies and even when your kingdom starts to really become a major power. In normal mtw after a while no one would be your ally just because your a power in the world. Has anyone else found that more factions means more allies?

So thats why I say save your allies, and keep them safe....but if they ever attack you...slaughter every last one of them ha ha

(evil santa)

**.:vVv:.Monkey** · 12-14-2005, 01:11

The diplomacy of AI is totally messed up, they ALWAYS break their alliances anyways. Just leave a weak province at the border and they'll attack no matter. As the Spanish, I have been allied with the Italians for at least 50 years and they have three dinky provinces left. I have protected them from their French enemies for so long and what do they do as soon as I decrease the number of troops in a neighboring province? They break our alliance and attack...Good job dummies!

**lugh** · 12-14-2005, 13:32

Originally Posted by Martok

Given that your faction leader loses influence for going to war with your buddies, I prefer to play nice as long as my allies don't mess with me.

That, I didn't know, cheers Martok! Even more reason to be a good Christian now.

Nah, KK, I've just played the game a fair bit. You must have missed the message is all. If you "spacebar" through all the end-year messages you can miss them. I've lost valuable allies in that way, since the message defaults to agree, and you have to disagree if you wish to keep the other ally.

**matteus the inbred** · 12-14-2005, 13:35

i did not know that either Martok, thanks! nice to see that perfidious backstabbing scoundrels don't get rewarded.

**Martok** · 12-14-2005, 21:08

Originally Posted by lugh

That, I didn't know, cheers Martok! Even more reason to be a good Christian now.

Originally Posted by matteus the inbred

i did not know that either Martok, thanks! nice to see that perfidious backstabbing scoundrels don't get rewarded.

Happy to help, mates.

I actually didn't discover it myself until I'd had Medieval for almost a year, shortly before Viking Invasion was released. I had a game going as the Spanish, and I couldn't understand why my king's influence kept fluctuating as I was conquering the Iberian peninsula (your Influence goes up 1 point for every 2 provinces you conquer). It was then that I realized that I had been allied with Aragon and the Almos when I'd attacked them. To confirm my suspicions, the French (who I was allied with at the time) were excommed, and I decided to launch a Crusade into Aquitaine while simultaneously invading Tolouse. The turn after I invaded, I checked my king's influence; and sure enough, it had dropped from 5 back to 4.

Once I got over my initial surprise, I was quite gratified to realize that there *is* a penalty for breaking alliances. It definitely adds a nice touch to the game!