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Thread: I'm sorry.
This "Letter of Apology" was written by Lieutenant General Chuck Pitman, US Marine Corps, Retired:
For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day massacre.
I humbly offer my opinion here:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.
I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.
I am sorry that Yassar Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause."
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.
I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets.
I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site."
I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc!
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do.
We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait! You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins.
Chuck Pitman
Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret)
For good and ill, the Iraqi prisoner abuse mess will remain an issue. On the one hand, right thinking Americans will abhor the stupidity of the actions while on the other hand, political glee will take control and fashion this minor event into some modern day massacre.
I humbly offer my opinion here:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.
I am sorry that their leaders squander their wealth.
I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools, mosques, and government-controlled media.
I am sorry that Yassar Arafat was kicked out of every Arab country and high-jacked the Palestinian "cause."
I am sorry that no other Arab country will take in or offer more than a token amount of financial help to those same Palestinians.
I am sorry that the USA has to step in and be the biggest financial supporter of poverty stricken Arabs while the insanely wealthy Arabs blame the USA for all their problems.
I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.
I am sorry that some Arab governments pay the families of homicide bombers upon their death.
I am sorry that those same bombers are brainwashed thinking they will receive 72 virgins in "paradise."
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets.
I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
I am sorry every time terrorists hide they find a convenient "Holy Site."
I am sorry they didn't apologize for driving a jet into the World Trade Center that collapsed and severely damaged Saint Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church - one of our Holy Sites.
I am sorry they didn't apologize for flight 93 and 175, the USS Cole, the embassy bombings, the murders and beheadings of Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl, etc....etc!
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
America will get past this latest absurdity. We will punish those responsible because that is what we do.
We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
If you want an apology from this American, you're going to have a long wait! You have a better chance of finding those seventy-two virgins.
Chuck Pitman
Lieutenant General, USMC (Ret)
LOL 
Give that man a round of applause!
It's people like him that you need at the top of your country's politics
I totally agree Mr Pitman sir!
It's people like him that you need at the top of your country's politics
I totally agree Mr Pitman sir!
Wonderful! Simply Wonderful! Why is it that it is the Army Officers that seem to be some of the best Orators (although this is a letter...) of our time, what with Colonel Tim Collins of the Royal Irish Regiment and now Lieutenant-General Chuck Pitman of the United States Marines. What an excellent letter!
I'd kiss him but he would probably kill me 
HURAY, now that is a real man, he explains it all. and he is disturbingly correct... that is why we must respect the armed forces, cause there the only thing left to be respected, not polititions, not media, not foreign diplomats, not religios figures...ect...man the world sucks
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny:
I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
Hey we told you this time it would be a bad idea I am sorry that the last seven times we Americans took up arms and sacrificed the blood of our youth, it was in the defense of Muslims (Bosnia, Kosovo, Gulf War 1, Kuwait, etc.).
Seriously though, he has some good points, but does he have a good, idea of how we can stop the terrorists and protect the innocent people of those Islamic countries against fundamentalists ? I'd like to hear it then...
Originally Posted by :
We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff
yeah....riiiiiiight. Absolutely prisoner abuse was a few low grade troops acting totally on their own and there has been no cover up. Absolutely we don't ship people around the world to countries where they can be more "conveniently" "questioned" and certainly no one is dying in afgan jails where CIA people just happen to be on vacation. Absolutely we don't invent convenient legal catagories justifying indefinite detention without trial and we certainly didn't try to prevent the prisoners finding out about the "evidence" we alleged supports their detention. We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff
Absolutely I remember what values it was we went to "war" to defend...
Well, I'll play devils advocate on this one....
Point being- This we dont hide anything talk, is a load of cobblers.
And finally, he could have added.
I am sorry the USA invaded Iraq under the perfectly legitimate pretense of forcing compliance with UN regulations and then thought we might as well do a bit of completely illegal regime change...you know...as we were in the area...
Originally Posted by :
Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Sorry but no amount of benevolent behaviour on the part of the americans will ever make 'making fun out of a few prisoners' justifed. That is one of the major problems in just war theory that people tend to gloss over. Retaliation, coz 'someone else started it first' (and yes, like British bombing of German cities in WW2, after they done it first) is NOT legitimate.Deep down inside, when most Americans saw this reported in the news, we were like - so what? We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
Kinda patronising to anyone with a differing opinion but whatever. I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
Originally Posted by :
We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Lets not kid ourselves into believing that the US is the cuddly, fluffy all-benevolent force that does no wrong. What of CIA teams sent to prop up and train anti-communist secret police forces, particularly in South america, who's tactics included training animals to rape female 'suspects'.We hang out our dirty laundry for the entire world to see. We move on. That's one of the reasons we are hated so much. We don't hide this stuff like all those Arab countries that are now demanding an apology.
Point being- This we dont hide anything talk, is a load of cobblers.
And finally, he could have added.
I am sorry the USA invaded Iraq under the perfectly legitimate pretense of forcing compliance with UN regulations and then thought we might as well do a bit of completely illegal regime change...you know...as we were in the area...
Originally Posted by English assassin:
yeah....riiiiiiight. Absolutely prisoner abuse was a few low grade troops acting totally on their own and there has been no cover up. Absolutely we don't ship people around the world to countries where they can be more "conveniently" "questioned" and certainly no one is dying in afgan jails where CIA people just happen to be on vacation. Absolutely we don't invent convenient legal catagories justifying indefinite detention without trial and we certainly didn't try to prevent the prisoners finding out about the "evidence" we alleged supports their detention.
Absolutely I remember what values it was we went to "war" to defend...
...would you rather be in the hands of americans as a POW or of some insurgent, tell in which you would expect to find mercy and goodness. comparativily, we are civil to no end.yeah....riiiiiiight. Absolutely prisoner abuse was a few low grade troops acting totally on their own and there has been no cover up. Absolutely we don't ship people around the world to countries where they can be more "conveniently" "questioned" and certainly no one is dying in afgan jails where CIA people just happen to be on vacation. Absolutely we don't invent convenient legal catagories justifying indefinite detention without trial and we certainly didn't try to prevent the prisoners finding out about the "evidence" we alleged supports their detention.
Absolutely I remember what values it was we went to "war" to defend...
civil to no end? Re-read EA's post and re-think the choice of words...
Comparatively Ireland is civil to no end. America is, while more civil than the insurgents, certainly not civil to no ends...
Comparatively Ireland is civil to no end. America is, while more civil than the insurgents, certainly not civil to no ends...
Hey wow , a defense contractor defends the war . Its good for business don't ya know .
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets.
Hey good point , but ......
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
Now then ,would that be killing lots of non-combatant civilians , or would he take the precaution waiting until the people had been sent back into the city just to make sure he was killing non-combatant civilians ? What an rswipe
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
Ah but he is compasionate about some mercenaries who didn't manage to collect their final fat paycheck so that Ok then , slaughter the population .
Gawain you surprise me , its been doing the rounds since March , what took you so long to post it ?
Out of curiosity Gawain , did you serve under him , he was into photography during part of his service ?
I am sorry that the homicide bombers think pregnant women, babies, children, the elderly and other noncombatant civilians are legitimate targets.
Hey good point , but ......
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
Now then ,would that be killing lots of non-combatant civilians , or would he take the precaution waiting until the people had been sent back into the city just to make sure he was killing non-combatant civilians ? What an rswipe
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
Ah but he is compasionate about some mercenaries who didn't manage to collect their final fat paycheck so that Ok then , slaughter the population .
Gawain you surprise me , its been doing the rounds since March , what took you so long to post it ?
Out of curiosity Gawain , did you serve under him , he was into photography during part of his service ?
Only thing this proves is the I.Q. off the average (US) officer.
The Generals, "I'm sorry", rant sounds all to familiar. A justification for the good to be bad, because the bad are so good at being bad. Nonsense put in a package for his choir to somehow justify the ill deeds committed under the banners of democracy and justice for all. It is like saying it is OK that our government is permitting torture - they are doing it in a nice way. That torture is now justifiable because they attacked us first (9/11/01), and the end justifys the means.
Same old weak story line, just another day on the far right.
Same old weak story line, just another day on the far right.
Excellent oration, and far better than anything we'll see from a politico for the next decade.
Deceptive, however, in the Lt. General's treatment of the torture question. But what can you expect? He's a staff officer, and those guys are politicos in their own way.
[edit]
Specifically:
Deceptive, however, in the Lt. General's treatment of the torture question. But what can you expect? He's a staff officer, and those guys are politicos in their own way.
[edit]
Specifically:
Originally Posted by Chuck Pitman:
We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
You have to be willfully blind to think that the torture problem is contained with "humiliating" a few prisoners. It also helps if you don't read much.We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Originally Posted by :
Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Yes. That´s really all that has to be said.Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
I'm sorry chuck becuase Mr.Adams here has already beaten you to apologising to your arab friends.
http://www.americasvoices.org/archiv...msM_061604.htm
http://www.americasvoices.org/archiv...msM_061604.htm
Originally Posted by faisal:
I'm sorry chuck becuase Mr.Adams here has already beaten you to apologising to your arab friends.
http://www.americasvoices.org/archiv...msM_061604.htm
So our 'Chuck' is just another blog rip-off. What a surprise.I'm sorry chuck becuase Mr.Adams here has already beaten you to apologising to your arab friends.
http://www.americasvoices.org/archiv...msM_061604.htm
Originally Posted by Upxl:
Only thing this proves is the I.Q. off the average (US) officer.
Oh, how creative.Only thing this proves is the I.Q. off the average (US) officer.
Originally Posted by AdrianII:
So our 'Chuck' is just another blog rip-off. What a surprise.
there are probably others like chuck, but i give chuck a cookie for removing any apology made to lefties and liberals, and replacing it with his Abu Ghraib tripe.So our 'Chuck' is just another blog rip-off. What a surprise.
Edit: i'm sorry to all who didn't get my post, this link should explain my comment.
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu.../14/12021.html
meh. Got some points...but from reading between the lines, is also quite a hypocrite.
I always like it when one of these blogs come out put forth these "Retired marine genral with 3423 purple hearts says F**K the Arabs" I mean I seriously thought these guys could come up with something better. Iraq has brought nothing but death and haterd to America and that wont change not when we leave and after 2 months the goverment falls and Iraq is thrown into anarchy creating a bigger mess. We need to cut and run. Or be faced with more death for something that will eventually become an even bigger shit storm
SFTS:
are you getting it on with some MoveOn chick or something?
are you getting it on with some MoveOn chick or something?
Originally Posted by Taffy_is_a_Taff:
SFTS:
are you getting it on with some MoveOn chick or something?
Ill move on youSFTS:
are you getting it on with some MoveOn chick or something?
I'm sorry but I'm not that way inclined.So now we can add a marine general to the airforce general ,the marine colonel , the army major , the special forces senior NCO , the Captain with the Airbourne.
I wonder who will be attributed to the next right wing blogsphere masterpiece , a navy Admiral perhaps , retired of course .
I wonder who will be attributed to the next right wing blogsphere masterpiece , a navy Admiral perhaps , retired of course .
I too am sorry, chuck, I'm sorry for your simplicity, hypocricy, and rip0ff tendencies.
Originally Posted by Upxl:
Only thing this proves is the I.Q. off the average (US) officer.
154 I estimate.Only thing this proves is the I.Q. off the average (US) officer.
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
No there wasn't because we knew it wouldn't come. We did call for bin Laden to be captured and brought to justice. Unfortunatly we have a leader who doesn't much care about bin Laden.I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
So?I am sorry that all of the murderers on 9/11 were Islamic Arabs.
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.
Damn well should be seeing as we put alot of them in place, and that we helped fund many of them.I am sorry that most Arabs and Muslims have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
Yes radical professors are leading a Maoist revolution right now in our streets. Stop hiding from shadows, the liberals don't bight (now socialists thats another storyI am sorry that our own left wing, our media, and our own brainwashed masses do not understand any of this (from the misleading vocal elements of our society like radical professors, CNN and the NY TIMES).
)Originally Posted by :
I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
And yet throw them into secret jails, bomb their cities to the ground, and then don't even try to say sorry for it.I am sorry that our troops die to free more Arabs from the gang rape rooms and the filling of mass graves of dissidents of their own making.
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
Who else is there?I am sorry that Muslim extremists have killed more Arabs than any other group.
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
Why? So you can fulfill some sick perverted act of revenge? Is your gun not a fulfilling phallic symbol anymore? Need a few dead innocent kids?I am sorry we don't drop a few dozen Daisy cutters on Fallujah.
Originally Posted by :
I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
What are we six? Haha he's fat.I am sorry Michael Moore is American; he could feed a medium sized village in Africa.
Originally Posted by :
We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Yes, because when you claim the moral high ground you damn well better earn it and keep on the straight and narrow. And when you slip, you say "oops" and clean up after yourself. If you don't you're just a bully, a bully for 'freedom' maybe, but a bully all the same.We lost hundreds and made fun of a few prisoners. Sure, it was wrong, sure, it dramatically hurts our cause, but until captured we were trying to kill these same prisoners. Now we're supposed to wring our hands because a few were humiliated?
Originally Posted by :
Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
When there are Iranian contractors patrolling our streets and telling us what to do and you don't have a desire to strike back you may speak. Until then you can shut the hell up.Our compassion is tempered with the vivid memories of our own people killed, mutilated and burnt amongst a joyous crowd of celebrating Fallujahans.
Originally Posted by :
now that is a real man,
what makes him a real man? He talks tuff? What makes him anymore of a man than you or me?now that is a real man,
Originally Posted by :
...would you rather be in the hands of americans as a POW or of some insurgent, tell in which you would expect to find mercy and goodness. comparativily, we are civil to no end.
try neither, not big on dying, nor on being held indefinatly and being forced into homoerotic positions....would you rather be in the hands of americans as a POW or of some insurgent, tell in which you would expect to find mercy and goodness. comparativily, we are civil to no end.
SFTS +1
Originally Posted by strike for the south:
We need to cut and run. Or be faced with more death for something that will eventually become an even bigger shit storm
Cut and run? Brilliant idea, so all the money we spent and lives that were given can go down the shithole? I think not. I'm not saying we should have gone, but have committed, so we should stay.We need to cut and run. Or be faced with more death for something that will eventually become an even bigger shit storm
Edit: Also, if we cut and run, three new countries will declare independence. One of these will be Kurdistan. Now Kurdistan will want to Annex part of Turkey, which said that will never happen. Turkey along with a Shittee/Sunni State coalition with invade and take over Kurdistan. They will then proceed to war with each other. It will be a God damn mess. So no to leaving.
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