Hardest Faction

[Keith_the_Great]

Aragon's, you've got a large more powerfull spain and france on both side yet you've only got 1 provice.

then theres turkey, probably them 2 and after them maybe polish\danes

[Psiloi]

HRE: Financial problems, expansion, the Pope, Civil War, reconquest, expansion, the english and the russians, the Pope-Civil War-english-russians-danish-financial problems...

I win with the HRE, but building only militia sergeants (the more cheap of make and support, with a good chance) and declining to fight the battles.

[Lanemerkel1]

(the other being Byz, too easy!)

easy?


say that when your playing byz and you've got crusades from all Catholic Nations, Jihads from all muslim nations and 4 full stacks of invaders from the only other orthodox heading for constantinople



I don't know where I screwed up but I really P.O.ed everyone

[Martok]

easy?


say that when your playing byz and you've got crusades from all Catholic Nations, Jihads from all muslim nations and 4 full stacks of invaders from the only other orthodox heading for constantinople



I don't know where I screwed up but I really P.O.ed everyone

You're the Byzantines, man. That means that pretty much everyone is gunning for you no matter what.

Seriously, though, it makes a certain amount of sense when you think about it. You're the defender of Christiandom in the East, so all the Muslims are gunning for you. The Catholics in the west and the Russians in the north both envy your wealth, resent your strength, and want the glory of defending Christiandom (from both the Saracens and the barbarian hordes of the Asian steppes) for themselves. And everyone wants Constantinople--both for its immense riches, and for the status conveyed upon the master of such a magnificient city. In short, everyone wants a piece of you!

[Lanemerkel1]

You're the Byzantines, man. That means that pretty much everyone is gunning for you no matter what.

Seriously, though, it makes a certain amount of sense when you think about it. You're the defender of Christiandom in the East, so all the Muslims are gunning for you. The Catholics in the west and the Russians in the north both envy your wealth, resent your strength, and want the glory of defending Christiandom (from both the Saracens and the barbarian hordes of the Asian steppes) for themselves. And everyone wants Constantinople--both for its immense riches, and for the status conveyed upon the master of such a magnificient city. In short, everyone wants a piece of you!

I'm in the middle of the early game, the horde hasn't even appeared yet, but you pretty much got everything else right

[Martok]

Well historically, this was pretty much the case as well. The "Franks" of western and central Europe greatly coveted the Empire's wealth, and actually sacked the city during one of the Crusades (I want to say the 2nd Crusade, but I could be wrong there). And taking Constantinople had been a major goal of the Islamic Caliphs for over 700 years before the city finally fell to the Ottomans in 1453.

[matteus the inbred]

I want to say the 2nd Crusade, but I could be wrong there

Fourth Crusade, 1204, but apart from that, dead right. The city fell in 1453 because a jealous and otherwise occupied Europe would not send enough troops...the Italians only sent troops (too late) for the money they expected to get, and on the condition that the Byzantines convert to the Catholic church. The Turks broke through on their final desperate assault, and wouldn't have had a chance had an Italian fleet and a couple of thousand more professional soldiers been there.
The initial expansion of Islam was largely halted due to their inability to take Constantinople in the 8th century.

Ironically, Byzantium is the only faction i haven't tried yet on the grounds that it's too strong...maybe time for a rethink. I should trust games developers more...!

[Martok]

Thanks matteus; I knew the 2nd Crusade didn't really sound right, but I just couldn't remember which one it actually was.

I must admit I'm surprised you haven't played as the Byz yet. I highly recommend giving them a try--especially now that you've been playing Medieval for a while. (They're definitely not a faction for players just learning the game; something I found out the hard way!) They have a lot of unique units, a lot of provinces, and you're at the crossroads of the known world--which means you have a LOT to keep track of! Playing the Byzantines is sort of the equivalent of trying to see how many eggs you can juggle at once.

[matteus the inbred]

yeah, i'm surprised at me too! my initial reaction once getting the game was...'right, i've played loads of STW, this'll be a doddle, what's the hardest faction?'

after getting creamed with whoever-it-was, went back and read the manual...! Byz sounds a bit like the HRE, which was fun, if somewhat frantic. i've got 5-6 campaigns on the go at the moment, but when they're done, i shall put on the purple and restore the Empire to it's rightful glory!

[Lanemerkel1]

Playing the Byzantines is sort of the equivalent of trying to see how many eggs you can juggle at once.

why do you think I have the juggle icon as my sig?

but it's not so bad

because when the crusades/jihads aren't aimed at me I can get alot of money using constantinople as a checkpoint for those tired crusade bastards (for some reason the crusaders keep paying me to let them pass through my land)

[Martok]

Byz sounds a bit like the HRE, which was fun, if somewhat frantic.

The difference is that as the Byz, you don't have to worry about being excommunicated every other turn.

Hmm, I think I may have to start another Byz campaign myself now. It's been a little while since I've done so!

[Lanemerkel1]

The difference is that as the Byz, you don't have to worry about being excommunicated every other turn.

Hmm, I think I may have to start another Byz campaign myself now. It's been a little while since I've done so!

I think whats different between me and any other byz players is that my main expansion occours NORTHWARD towards Novogrod, I also expand south and west but I usually leave Edessa, Tripoli, Antioch, and Palestine with the Eggys, because while they may be good income provinces, they cost more than they gain because your always the target of a crusade

[Martok]

I think whats different between me and any other byz players is that my main expansion occours NORTHWARD towards Novogrod, I also expand south and west but I usually leave Edessa, Tripoli, Antioch, and Palestine with the Eggys, because while they may be good income provinces, they cost more than they gain because your always the target of a crusade

That's a good point, but I usually take the Holy Land anyway, for 2 reasons:

1.) If I don't take them, the Eggies often become ridiculously powerful, as all that income lets them afford those huge multiple army stacks on our borders....

2.) As God's co-Vice-Regent on Earth, I feel it's my holy duty to take Outremer and safeguard it against the Muslim infedels for the sake all Christians everywhere. (Of course, I feel the same way when I play as the Eggies, except then I must drive out the Frankish barbarians.)

[Phatboi]

HRE HRE HRE HRE HRE!!!!!!!!!

i may not be the best of players but i find the HRE to disorganized. its poor resources and amount of land to go with them are just discouraging.

[_Aetius_]

HRE HRE HRE HRE HRE!!!!!!!!!

i may not be the best of players but i find the HRE to disorganized. its poor resources and amount of land to go with them are just discouraging.

The HRE look very hard, infact they are difficult because you need abit of luck in the early years, but it has the potential to be rich and powerful if governed correctly.

You need to mirco-manage everything abit, assign governerships to good governors (4+ acumen atleast) to maximise profit, build watch towers and border forts in all provinces early on and make taxes as high as possible without causing rebellions.

Then its a matter of making as many alliances as possible and building armies, the frontiers are to long for you defend all of it so I suggest a major army in Burgundy or Lorraine to keep an eye on the French and a major army in Austria to watch the Hungarians and Poles, its also wise to have forces in Saxony because the Danes can get troublesome. Try and maintain garrisons and make as much money as possible, what your avoiding is losing alot of territory and thus civil war. Your bound to lose some territory but aslong as you can hold your own the damage will be minimal.

Once youve weathered any immediate danger, invade Italy to get access to rich trading provinces which the HRE lacks and your sorted really.

Anyway this belongs partly in the guides section, but the HRE isnt all that difficult, I think its the most satisfying faction to do well with due to the amount of effort you have to put in.

[_Aetius_]

Fourth Crusade, 1204, but apart from that, dead right. The city fell in 1453 because a jealous and otherwise occupied Europe would not send enough troops...the Italians only sent troops (too late) for the money they expected to get, and on the condition that the Byzantines convert to the Catholic church. The Turks broke through on their final desperate assault, and wouldn't have had a chance had an Italian fleet and a couple of thousand more professional soldiers been there.
The initial expansion of Islam was largely halted due to their inability to take Constantinople in the 8th century.

Ironically, Byzantium is the only faction i haven't tried yet on the grounds that it's too strong...maybe time for a rethink. I should trust games developers more...!

I generally agree with you, but personally I don't believe the west was jealous of Byzantium per-se (certainly not the last 250 years of its history) but more they just didnt care about its plight. Everybody knows the crusades had about 1% to do with the preservation of Byzantium and was just a vehicle for pure imperialism, aside from that the vast majority of aid came coupled with self-interest. Helping the Eastern Christians was a pious sounding excuse for war I suppose.

On the whole the west could of helped alot more than it did, but if you look at it from their point of view why should they travel the other side of Europe to help a bunch of heretic Greeks? Where the Venetians and Genoese were concerned, whatever was financially profitable was the right decision, frankly i'm confused why either sent aid to byzantium at the end, there was little in it for them and the Turks were bound to prevail sooner or later anyway.

Anyway as for the faction, i've gone the Byzantines many many more times than any other, mainly because it really does change everytime you play as them, i've had totally contrasting games, sometimes i've been hanging on for dear life sometimes I have room to breathe and consolidate and who knows what direction the Mongols might choose to attack. If you fear they are to easy then I strongly suggest trying them in the high and late periods and trying to reconquer everything that had been lost, big challenge but loads of fun.

[Martok]

because when the crusades/jihads aren't aimed at me I can get alot of money using constantinople as a checkpoint for those tired crusade bastards (for some reason the crusaders keep paying me to let them pass through my land)

No kidding? I don't remember the Crusades paying me to pass through their land (historically they certainly didn't!). I guess I'll have to keep an eye out for that as my new Byzantine game progresses....