Save Tookie!!!!!!!

[Major Robert Dump]

There are no greater legal minds than hip hop artists and ganster rappers. Their intelectuality is far above that of all others. When they put down the malt liquor and stop rapping about chrome rims and pork rinds to come to the defense of a poor enteprenuer (he started a large social organization in LA, you may have heard of them) then we know its a good cause!!!!

To ignore such an outcry of redemption and clemency from the pillars of society would be unjust!!!

And they do murder Tookie in a little while, I hope those dead asians feel good about themselves for what they brought on this poor man. And 7-11 was to blame for the robbery because they never should have left their door unlocked in a black community, so they were AXING for it.

P.S.--riot, south okc 89th and penn, 3 am we're going to burn some cars and steal some televisions to protest

[DemonArchangel]

I think Tookie is keeping more people ALIVE than he killed.

Bad decision on California's part.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Fry him, then serve him up to his gangmates.

[Soulforged]

It's a shame, I thought that he was released, maybe I watched the wrong movie.

Poor sense of justice.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Stan "Tookie" Williams was a founding member of the LA street gang the Crips back in 1971 at the age of 17. He was convicted in the 1979 shotgun murders of 4 people - 63 year old Tsai-Shen Yang, her husband Yen-Yi Yang, 67, and daughter Ye-Chen Lin, 43, during the robbery of a motel they owned.

He was also convicted of murdering 7-11 store clerl Albert Owens, 19, during a robbery where he apparently mocked the gurgling sounds made by Owens as he lay face down on the ground dying after an execution-style shotgun blast to the back of his head.

Wow, this is a hard one to call

[ichi]

Too bad Tookie didn't play football for USC or have a sister named Janet,

Clearly the man falsified the evidence and pinned this on the poor guy in an effort to undermine his legitimate business enterprises aiding the poor youth of LA.

But without Johnny Cochran he never had a chance.

Since the governor did not reject, you must inject

ichi

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It's a shame, I thought that he was released, maybe I watched the wrong movie.

A shame? Well no one should be executed. But theres no way this guy should ever be allowed to walk the streets again. Im sure he would be glad just to be allowed to live.

[Soulforged]

A shame? Well no one should be executed. But theres no way this guy should ever be allowed to walk the streets again. Im sure he would be glad just to be allowed to live.

Let me ask you a question, given that he's still an human being (and he has prooved it, whatever that's): What will you do in his possition? What will you fill? How will you like to be treated? How do you propose to treat people to make society better and no worse? By hitting them with an stick, sending them behind closed doors and saying them their lives are finished?
This is just about curiosity, because it always amuses me that the old vision of vengeance is still among us, rational beings. What purpose do you think you achive by killing or jailing someone for such a long time?

[GoreBag]

He formed the Crips? Wow, influential man. I wonder if he maintains any sway over the actions of the other Crips.

[Fragony]

Good riddance. I am sure the lethal injection made him a better person. So he stopped his criminal career, dump me on an abandonded island and I asure you I will stop smoking.

[Adrian II]

Amazing - Major Robert manages to dump himself. Poking fun at someone else's death is an ugly thing to do. It is precisely the reason why the Founding Fathers did away with cruel and usual punishments that served for the distraction and amusement of the general public. Tookie used to poke fun at his dying victims, too. Ridiculing his fate from the safety of your home isn't all that different.

[Xiahou]

Amazing - Major Robert manages to dump himself. Poking fun at someone else's death is an ugly thing to do. It is precisely the reason why the Founding Fathers did away with cruel and usual punishments that served for the distraction and amusement of the general public.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the reason they did away with 'cruel and unusual' punishment was because it was cruel an unusual..... but ya know, I'm probably just grasping at straws here.

[English assassin]

On the subject of cruel and unusual punishment, if you are going to have a death penalty why on earth does it take you 24 years to implement it?

I am against the death penalty on principle, fast or slow, but after 24 years can you even say you are executing the same person who laughed at his dying victim?

You'd save yourselves a lot of bother if you had a law that said if the penalty wasn't implimented in, say, 5 years, it was automatically commuted. My two cents.

[Adrian II]

I'm probably just grasping at straws here.

That's alright. Look into the history of the English Bill of Rights (1689) that they copied it from.

[ichi]

Pretty sure MRD and others aren't making fun of Tookie's death, but are instead pokig at the celebrities who have found it such a worthwhile cause to try to save him from the needle.

There's so many things in the world that are worthy of our attention, this cause celeb falls about halfway down my list.

and TBH, I'm not sure life in prison is better than death. Both are pretty rough, but some things rise to the level of justifying the State in terminating someone's ultimate rights.

ichi

[Ja'chyra]

Yet another one who has front up and pay the piper, ain't it a bitch when your life catches up with you.

[Samurai Waki]

Had he been in texas he would've died 23 years ago.

Moving on...I think it's clear that redemption is possible. The environment he was raised in led to the rise of that monster, he did terrible things out of desperation, and an attempt to rise above the rest. Killing those people, no matter the circumstance, is unforgiveable.
It is a tragedy, not because he shouldn't have been severly punished, but because he rised to meet his fate, reached out as far as he could, and held onto what he had and gained within himself as long as possible. While some people may mourn his death, or asked that he should be put in prison for the rest of his life. I think he was probably unafraid to die, he knew later on in life, that the consequences of his actions would hound him with guilt and misery until the day he died.If I was in his position, I would be prepared to face my final judgement. And if there is a god, or an afterlife... undoubtedly he will not be damned for eternity. He already made reparations. And I hope that somewhere, he will be at peace with himself for the rest of existance.

[doc_bean]

On the subject of cruel and unusual punishment, if you are going to have a death penalty why on earth does it take you 24 years to implement it?

I am against the death penalty on principle, fast or slow, but after 24 years can you even say you are executing the same person who laughed at his dying victim?

You'd save yourselves a lot of bother if you had a law that said if the penalty wasn't implimented in, say, 5 years, it was automatically commuted. My two cents.

Seconded

[Strike For The South]

Had he been in texas he would've died 23 years ago.
.

Thats where my sig comes into play

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I love Ron White (but not in a gay way )

[Adrian II]

Pretty sure MRD and others aren't making fun of Tookie's death, but are instead pokig at the celebrities who have found it such a worthwhile cause to try to save him from the needle.

I don't know about his celeb advocates, but I imagine they aren't exactly role models themselves.

However I can understand people saying that Tookie could do more good than bad by repenting, and by making at least something of his life behind bars by helping to save others and sending the proceeds to charities. His death is not going to bring anyone back to life and it sure isn't going to stop hardened criminals from following in his footsteps. His books, on the other hand, talk to kids and their parents (mothers mostly) about ways to handle the temptation of a life of crime.

I admit that somewhere in the back of my brain, part of me wants to know what would have happened had he been pardoned after all. Would he have stopped his charity work immediately, pulled a nose at everybody? Or would he have continued like the Birdman of Alcatraz, becoming a sort of support figure for others who had completely lost control of their lives?

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

well, he was caught making escape plans that involved killing law enforcement personnel.

I'm not sure when this happened though. If it was recently then you can be sure this reformed character, don't admit to crimes (multiple witnesses, testimonies from accomplices etc.) stuff was just a ruse to get him out rather than to just avoid the death penalty (he would have had a far better hope of not being executed if he'd admitted his guilt and apologised).

[Adrian II]

well, he was caught making escape plans that involved killing law enforcement personnel.

I read somewhere that he continued giving instructions to his fellow gang members out of prison, at recently as last year, and that he maintains a huge bank account. At least that is what the prison authorities claim. Probably the long nose after all, huh? Well, you can't win em all. Still, it is no cause for celebration. And I grant that some of his defenders are complete idiots, like the Nation of Islam types. But then we already knew that.

[Major Robert Dump]

No, Adrian was right, I was making fun of his death. I'm a terrible person, maybe I should buy one of his books and read it to redeem myself...didn't work for Tookie's children tho, since they are in prison, too, so um nevermind I'll go read Hustler instead.

[Proletariat]

Can anyone sticking up for this guy explain how the f you can be redemptive and innocent at the same time?

I dislike the death penalty as much as any civilized human being, but this is the last guy I'd start my anti-capital punishment crusade with.

[KafirChobee]

Shame they retired the electric chair - Tookie needs to fry. He was and is a bad guy. Pity, he'll just get a lethal injection and fall asleep never to wake up again. Where as his victims were murdered watching their family members slain, screaming for their lives to be spared while Tookie ignored the pleas and gleefully slayed away.

I do oppose the death penalty on many grounds (especially when it is done even after new evidence is available, but ignored or contended to be to "late" or it is found that the prosecution with held evidence, etc), but when someone is proven to be of a total evil nature I find it hard not to want that person perminately removed from society. Tookie is such a person. His new "facade" is all but laughable - and the idea that he has changed? Well, he might first attempt some show of remorse - rather than contend he didn't do it. 70% of the cons in prison contend their innocense; our prosecutors are willing to go to any length for a conviction - but, it is hard to imagine that 70% of our prisoners are innocent (20% maybe ).

Say good-nite, Tookie. May you burn in he77.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Edit: insensitive to thugs

[Lemur]

I dislike the death penalty as much as any civilized human being, but this is the last guy I'd start my anti-capital punishment crusade with.

Couldn't agree more. I don't think the death penalty is an effective use of resources. It costs too much, both in cash and American prestige. But if you're going to have state-sanctioned execution, well, Tookie seems like a prime candidate.

[ichi]

I admit that somewhere in the back of my brain, part of me wants to know what would have happened had he been pardoned after all. Would he have stopped his charity work immediately, pulled a nose at everybody? Or would he have continued like the Birdman of Alcatraz, becoming a sort of support figure for others who had completely lost control of their lives?

I too was wondering that. Maybe a cross between Morgan Freeman in The shawshank Redemption and Samuel L Jackson from Pulp Fiction. Or an HBO cell-com "I used to be a bad-ass gansta" with Chris Rock as his little buddy.

Oh well, the path has been chosen, now we try to fill the void

ichi

[Adrian II]

I too was wondering that. Maybe a cross between Morgan Freeman in The shawshank Redemption and Samuel L Jackson from Pulp Fiction. Or an HBO cell-com "I used to be a bad-ass gansta" with Chris Rock as his little buddy.

Oh well, the path has been chosen, now we try to fill the void

ichi

I know, I know, it's not as if crime fascinates us in any way or form. Why would we care, after all.

AdrianII