Quote Originally Posted by Del Arroyo
Alright, let me ask-- what the hell is the matter with torture? Are we not at War? What is this nonsense about being Humane? Personally, I don't think that KILLING people is very humane. And don't even try any hogwash about quick, clean kills-- what if you get your leg blown off and bleed to death? Or shot in the neck and slowly choke to death? And what if you are forced to watch one of your best buddies slowly suffer and die from such an injury? Would that not be psychological torture as well?

It is horrible that people must die such deaths and undergo such torment, but such is the price they pay for acting as combatants on a hot battlefield. Or perhaps simply for being an innocent in the wrong place at the wrong time-- no one said that war was fair. What I do not understand is in what way Torture is morally distinct-- it is also horrible that people must undergo such torment and humiliation, but such is the price to pay for associating with terrorists and being a carrier of militarily useful information. Or perhaps simply for being an innocent in the wrong place at the wrong time-- no one said that war was fair.

I will grant that in many cases there may be a straight-forward "hearts and minds" practicality to prohibiting torture, but that is a practical and not a moral objection. Can anyone explain to me why, morally, torture should be forbidden in our war in Iraq (I could say War on Terror, but that term really doesn't apply to our current situation). Or is it a purely Practical concern? Basically, why all the hubbub?

I'm interested to hear people's opinions, but I suspect that much of the outcry over "torture" may be due simply to delusional squeamishness.

DA
After their first military training many youngsters want to see black and white, be the toughest of the tough, forget about everything they were taught before. The prospect of serving and maybe dying in a war, which is inherently unjust because they were never asked in the first place and compounded by the lack of purpose of their own leaders, makes them want to be callous, feel doomed, part of another 'race', the only race on earth that knows what life and death and suffering are really all about.

The same happened to a friend of mine in the Israeli army, who was equally 'firm' and equally... unprepared. He went in to crush Palestinian skulls, but they got under his skull first and he came out a nervous wreck. Beware, Del Arroyo, the monster is in your own head and nowhere else. Your enemies know that; Iraq has been at war with itself for fifty years. They will find a way to get to your inner monster, to hurt and humiliate and enrage it to the point that it may destroy you. And they will, unless you are damned sure of what you stand for, and unless what you stand for is different from what they stand for. Better start fighting your inner monster now.

Take care.