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Thread: How to keep the late game interesting

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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default How to keep the late game interesting

    I'm wondering how we could keep the late game, 50%+ of the map is conquered by one faction, interesting. I'm wondering if we could script triggers to better enemy generals or something. What about you guys?
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    I think its an big problem on all campaigns.How to make the player intrested to the end. Honestly i dont have a clue how to achieve that.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    I think we could figure out a way to script it so that the AI begins getting really good generals at certain points in the game...

    In the study I did, after a certain point(a very early point), the amount of farm land controlled withing a given perimeter, can sustain all garrison and border armies. There's nothing economic we can really do with the late game so... I dunno really.
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 12-21-2005 at 05:22.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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    Master of Puppets Member hellenes's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
    I think we could figure out a way to script it so that the AI begins getting really good generals at certain points in the game...

    In the study I did, after a certain point(a very early point), the amount of farm land controlled withing a given perimeter, can sustain all garrison and border armies. There's nothing economic we can really do with the late game so... I dunno really.
    Civil wars...
    That what made me on my toes in MTW espessially as HRE...
    If you can afford the faction slots...

    Hellenes
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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    We really can't, we might start modifying rebellion triggers as the game moves on, but RTW doesn't support civil war, except the scripted ones we have.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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    Master of Puppets Member hellenes's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky
    We really can't, we might start modifying rebellion triggers as the game moves on, but RTW doesn't support civil war, except the scripted ones we have.
    Isnt this mod for BI?
    Then why dont you use the Roman culture that HAS rebellions and civil wars...
    I just dont know if you can make all factions roman culture and create their half rebel factions...

    Hellenes
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    The best choose one thing in exchange for all, everflowing fame among mortals; but the majority are satisfied with just feasting like beasts.

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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    I think only two factions can have civil wars. It's hard coded :(. Right now, those are being used for the emergence of Tokugawa and Toyotomi's Sucession if I have it correct.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    Just a little double post. I've started a parallel thread in our parent forum here:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39976

    And a seperate idea:

    [quote]If we really wanted to, we could always add in the Korean Mainland as a diversion from conquering Japan.

    It'd be interesting we could script an optional Korean Conquest Victory Condition. I would be very supportive of that, even if Korea is just filled with 'Ming' rebels and is damn near impossible to hold due to culture and loyalty issues.

    This is how Micropose made Master of Orion 2 fun, they made a victory condition that allowed the player to invade the crazy powerful(only when you start playing it) Antarian homeworld for the most prestigious win.

    It was a good way to avoid the boredom of xenocide.
    [quote]
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 12-21-2005 at 21:13.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



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    Earl Of Warwick/Wannabe Tuareg Member beauchamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    Dude....its far more fun if the game is difficult, besides, the Oda will find ways to fall. Take History for example, THEY didnt end up running the country... in the end.

    It just means that if you play as the Oda, you will have a better chance of winning, if your playing as any of the other clans, prepare for war!


    Ya Misr!

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    Member Member soibean's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    if you could script some way to decrease the public order percentage after a certain number of provinces are taken over...

  11. #11
    Member Member jean_s's Avatar
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    Default just an ideea

    could be after you have conquered over 70% of the map:

    your faction to split between you and your best general (including the provices) ...like a betrayal...

    ...and after that a really great war (considering that he will take you also some of the best units you have and also provinces).

    probably the best you can get is to give him an udivided teritory...

    ...it was just an ideea :)
    Banzaaaaaii!

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    Member Member Helgi's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    [quote]If we really wanted to, we could always add in the Korean Mainland as a diversion from conquering Japan.

    It'd be interesting we could script an optional Korean Conquest Victory Condition. I would be very supportive of that, even if Korea is just filled with 'Ming' rebels and is damn near impossible to hold due to culture and loyalty issues.

    This is how Micropose made Master of Orion 2 fun, they made a victory condition that allowed the player to invade the crazy powerful(only when you start playing it) Antarian homeworld for the most prestigious win.

    It was a good way to avoid the boredom of xenocide.

    [quote]

    A invasion of the Korean Peninsula as a prestigious win, would make the make it not only more fun but historically correct. The thing is though, you would need to have Korea and Ming China as a non-playable faction or as rebels.

    The Antarian idea would extend it and present a nice challange after committing Genocide on your Japanese rivals
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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    I cant do that at this moment.If we hawe 20 plus one rebel faction.Thats about that.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    We can name the rebel factiosn remember?
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  15. #15

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    i dont think civil war would be right
    no samurai would EVER turn on their lord

    so only non- samurai troops would turn and none of your existing leaders

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    Member Member soibean's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    well maybe they wouldnt turn against their lord but there would be rival forces within the same faction
    My example would be from the book Shogun by James Clavell
    you could script a division within the factions, but the best you could offer was using a faction slot as the rebels... or maybe using a faction that would definately be dominated every time come back out
    only problem is if you're playing as that faction

    I can really only see the introduction of a new faction with sufficient force or a superior location as a threat. If you did introduce something like that, say when you own 70% of the land if thats possible, then you could have all AI factions ally with it upon appearance, if possible again.
    Im just rambling now sorry
    Last edited by soibean; 04-12-2006 at 02:59.

  17. #17

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    why not make an invasion from the mongols like in mtw when the golden horde come in

    that kept mtw interesting

  18. #18

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    why not make an invasion from the mongols like in mtw when the golden horde come in

    that kept mtw interesting

  19. #19

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    I'd be more in favour of the Korean peninsula than any of the other options, even if one of the Japanese factions needed to bite the dust in the end to do it (although it would work with rebels). Making the game harder to manage economically at a stage where you hold dozens of provinces sounds like sadomasochism to me, and a civil war would simply mean that you have end up conquering half the same cities again.

  20. #20

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    yea um in my personal opinion the rebelign of cities that u took over elryer just to make it more hard ... is not a good idea id like much better the korean penesula idea or somthing els all together or why not just let the game go as it shoueld and do nothing to make it harder .. jsut put al lthe dificulty sliders at max if the player chooses to do so.I think id remain interested if its a good map and froem the japan map iv see nits impresive.. alot of clans... good 3d models and nice descriptions of eahc clan to let u immers ur self in that clan :) cant wait to get that mod.
    Ich bin Der Engel Des Todes... -_-

  21. #21

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    why not make it when you take half the map all enemy make a anti you army and join together into 1 faction

  22. #22

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    So ok all ur alies woueld turn on u??? how honorable is that of them?? u take half the map and ur close freidns uv alied wivv will jsut go agaisnt u instead of helping u?? i think thats not a very good idea soem clans tho might of ben back stabers but not all.. maby an alliance of al lthe clans ur at war with unit for a comon cause... but not ur alies.. and maby some of the nutrals pick 1 side or choose to remain nutral.. but i think its ridiculus to have al lthe clans go against u. that is my opinion, maby just not bother at al labout how the player wil lstill get chalange half way through and concentrate on finish the mod they allready started instead of keeping adding and adding ?i dunno its just how i feel about it. ounce its finished maby the mods will be more inspired on a way to keep things interestign with out making a mess of it..
    Ich bin Der Engel Des Todes... -_-

  23. #23

    Exclamation Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    Distance from capital penalty should keep things interesting.

    or

    A law of diminishing return where each extra province you own contributes less to the empire once the empire is past a certain size. Like modeling increasing corruption/maintenance costs for a large empire. Make it so some one with 50 provinces has only a 10% advantage compared to 30 provinces.

  24. #24
    I Still Play Shogun Member ratbarf's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    Hmm... When I played MTW for the first time I was the english. I pretty much conqured most of northern europe and the spanish peninsula. But when I got to eastern Europe the Byzantines were waiting. On some fluke they had managed to grab about half the freaking map under one empire. We had an awsome fight which ended in a stalemate until the mongols came along and massacered them... But since they managed to conquer almost half of the map it made it quite interesting to continue since they could field large armies in multiple provinces. Maybe you should script it so that one clan will rise to dominance among the surrounding clans. Then Japan would be split into at least two large factions and several small ones to snap at any shown weakness.

    ANyways I just thought that would be cool. Also you could introduce the Korean peninsula like that aztecs are introduced in MTW2.

    Greate work guys can't wait!!!
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  25. #25

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    I played the original Shogun 10x1000 times .. and i always did fight to the last battle ... it is question of endurence and perseverence ... if the mod comes out ... well bie bie hard drive ... welkome coffe LoL
    "One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.
    One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose.
    One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle."

  26. #26

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    It was always the best moment when the two factions dominating the maps would invade the bordering provinces in STW! The Mori clan did my cheese in!
    Sir the Seleucids are approaching, what should we do?
    One second....

    their we go!

  27. #27
    Beauty hunter Senior Member Raz's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    I like the idea by Dermeister. How all your enemies unite against you.

    ... That is all.
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  28. #28

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    Well if this becomes an issue after the launch of the mod, the two things you could look at are religion and succession wars.

    In the case of religion, as you come close to conquering japan those opposed to your religious ideology will undoubtedly mass defect against you. If you are christian, massive ikko ikki rebellions popping up, not just in traditional ikko ikki territories, but in farther off provinces where buddhist minorities are being repressed as well as they team up with local ronin and other dissatisfied locals. If you are buddhist, all coastal provinces should be hit hard by christian rebellions. Perhaps you could even create a Western marine-type unit for this specific purpose. The potential of a STRONG and WELL ARMORED rifle unit that can also fight in melee.

    The way you could avoid these two outcomes is to follow shinto beliefs, but in that case you miss out on much larger advantages of being buddhist or christian.

    As for succession wars, well that was always the most difficult part about unifying any country so it would only make sense. When a big conquering leader dies (regardless of how much of japan you own) you should enter a period of succession wars. As for how to implement this, well you could simply spawn rebels, you could script massive loyalty plunges in certain units, perhaps even based on religion? I don't know how else you might be able to implement this, but spawning a horde of some sort could also work (I don't know if rebels can horde as I own BI but have hardly played it)

  29. #29

    Default Re: How to keep the late game interesting

    hi, im new to this forum and mod.
    As an idea, how about when you have conquered 70% of the map, the imperial army goes agaisnt you and all remaining clans ally with it? it's not as if there was no emperor. well, just an idea.

  30. #30
    Member Member LennStar's Avatar
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    Default AW: How to keep the late game interesting

    There was an emperor, but
    1. without much power or army and
    2. the SHOGUN (means hopefully you) is the leader of the "imperial army".

    In this time you can forget the imperial family. The sengoku jidai was for finding who the shogun is, its not that the emperor had much to say who "his" first man would be. It was mostly the question of who hold Kyoto.
    (Thats the reason why there was the Meijji "Restauration" 1868 to bring back the emperor to power.)

    Uniting all enemy clans at this point would be the best way (or better, at 50%), for a in-game Sekigahara, with some spawned armies (which you have to defeat all), but I don't think thats possible?

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