300 (Spartans, that is)

[Lemur]

I don't know how many of you have read Frank Miller's 300, but it's a really great piece of work. Very pro-Spartan, very rah-rah bronze age fascism, but a lot of fun.

I guess Sin City inspired the wonks in L.A. to try again, 'cause they're doing 300 this time. Here's a link to their site, including, most interestingly, a video diary.

What does this forum of history buffs think? Will it be good? Interesting? Even vaguely historically accurate? Will they make any attempt at all to show what a phalanx looked like?

[master of the puppets]

if you need history buffs go to the monastary.

[Lemur]

I didn't mean to impugn your honor, Puppet, by implying you are a history buff. Mods, in the interest of preventing any other misunderstandings, could you move this to the Monastary?

[master of the puppets]

personally i hope it will be killing, and thats the movie.

[Beirut]

personally i hope it will be killing, and thats the movie.

Well there's a deep dark Christmas sentiment to share. S'matter, get a lump of coal in your stocking?

Moved. Ever so gently to the Monastery.

[Adrian II]

I don't know how many of you have read Frank Miller's 300, but it's a really great piece of work. Very pro-Spartan, very rah-rah bronze age fascism, but a lot of fun.

I guess Sin City inspired the wonks in L.A. to try again, 'cause they're doing 300 this time. Here's a link to their site, including, most interestingly, a video diary.

What does this forum of history buffs think? Will it be good? Interesting? Even vaguely historically accurate? Will they make any attempt at all to show what a phalanx looked like?

Merry Boxing Day, Brother Lemur!

I trust that most of your guests have departed by now, bar a few who will stay for the rest of the week and who are now out walking in the woods or feeding the ducks with the kids. This is a time for Dads all over the world to retire into their studies and disappear into virtual limbo for the rest of the afternoon.

And what a lovely study in fascism it brings!

My idiocy detector with regard to Sparta is always the oldest source, Hedorotos, particularly the passage where he states that Spartan warriors wore red cloaks and long hair which they combed before going into battle. In the words of Plutarch: 'They would take particular care in arranging their hair, which was long because Lycurgus said that long hair adds beauty to a good face, and terror to an ugly one.'

The cloaks are there on the gentlemen in the video, but their curly wurly hair-do's (which seem to have been taken from Athenian sculpture and vases) are not authentic. Spartans wore skirts as well, not those perky little tanga's from the video which, I trust, will go down a riot with a certain audience in San Francisco.

I suppose there will be another audience for it as well, mainly youths who like to imagine themselves as cold-hearted avengers in a black and white world (the actors certainly look as if they are unable to read or write, as were most Spartan warriors). A world where women know their place (there seems to be one female character in the movie who symbolises womenhood, always a sure sign of fascism). Also, if I may venture fore a moment beyond my own habitat, I imagine some Americans long for the sort of warriors depicted here, men without political doubts or nagging consciences, without any other emotion than the patriotism and sense of duty that they were indoctrinated with since early youth.

I have not read the book, so maybe you can correct any mistaken impressions on my part. But at first sight, Brother Lemur, I have to say this looks like total cr@p to me. So, um..

.. enjoy!

[Sjakihata]

No - I do not think it will be remotely accurate. I even think the movie will show that the 300 defeated the persians...

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

I imagine that America longs for the sort of warriors depicted here, men without political doubts or nagging consciences, without any other emotion than the patriotism and sense of duty that they were indoctrinated with since early youth.

We have a full caste of them in this country. I wish they took them away for themselves and we would have some life here.

OK, OK... No more backroomishness.
.

[Adrian II]

.

We have a full caste of them in this country. I wish they took them away for themselves and we would have some life here.

OK, OK... No more backroomishness.
.

If you just give us the historical background to the phenomenon, it wouldn't be out of place in the Monastery at all, Brother Mouzafphaerre. There is a whole strain of fiction (film, literature, comics, video games) that idealises this sort of warrior.

[Strike For The South]

If you just give us the historical background to the phenomenon, it wouldn't be out of place in the Monastery at all, Brother Mouzafphaerre. There is a whole strain of fiction (film, literature, comics, video games) that idealises this sort of warrior.

Some how a film about acinet greece turns into an America=facism +bashing =a disapointed SFTS becuase Adrian was his favorite communist/socalist. For shame For Shame

[Lemur]

For what it's worth, in the book Frank Miller drew the Spartans as being naked with the exception of their cloaks. So don't blame him for the leather thongs thingies. That's Hollywood and its irrational fear of male genitalia.

As to the whole issue of whether or not the film's going to be all rah-rah fascist Sparta, well, it's hard to tell from a production diary. I'm not sure it's so completely inappropriate to field a big-muscles fantasy every now and then. Even Robert E. Howard's much-maligned hero has his place.

Anyway, based on the posts so far, it seeems that opinion is squarely against 300. Oh well. I'm going to cling to some small shred of hope.

[Adrian II]

Some how a film about acinet greece turns into an America=facism +bashing =a disapointed SFTS becuase Adrian was his favorite communist/socalist. For shame For Shame

Brother Strike, that was not a judgment about America, it was my first impression of the movie. Some audiences will like the movie for various reasons, I suppose. The simplistic Good versus Evil theme is not surprising in a country at war. Nor are we unfamiliar with the erotic connotations of violence. There is something really smelly about it, I couldn't help pointing that out.
And the Spartans did wear long hair.

[master of the puppets]

A world where women know their place (there seems to be one female character in the movie who symbolises womenhood, always a sure sign of fascism).

its true that a the movie might historicly depict the women as outgoing because Lakadaemeon (spelling?) was one of the few city states where women were almost equals to men, though they were housemakers they could divorce, argue, and sometimes override there husbands, they could vote and it was not uncommon for them to have a voice in polotics. they prided themselves in there physical fitness and beauty despite not using any makeup. to look at spartan womeen as you would any other greek woman as weak, voicless and simply a object is an extreme error, the spartan womenm were much respected.

[Kralizec]

Lacedaemon was not a city, rather a group of villages on the Spartan plain. They weren't a builder civilization, and didn't leave much ruins for archeological research as Athens for example.

[Adrian II]

To look at Spartan women as you would any other Greek woman as weak, voiceless and simply an object is an extreme error, the Spartan women were much respected.

That seems to have been the case, but I get the impression this woman is being depicted as simply a child-rearing asset as in so many B movies.

[Watchman]

Everything I've heard and read of this movie absolutely stinks of the sort of regressive "narcissistic projection" that was once so succintly embodied in the fearsomely jut-jawed, muscle-bound heros "who always look about to go beat someone up" characteristic of the art condoned by a certain political movement ascendant in the Thirties and since then a *literally* four-letter word...

That by all accounts the Persian High King Whatshisname in the movie mostly resembles an unholy offspring of Jabba the Hutt and Baron Vladimir Harkonnen does not help my impression one bit.

I also find the thought that there might actually be "social demand" for this kind of manure fairly disturbing, but not particularly surprising.