1829: interactive history one step beyond

[Mr White]

Interesting idea.

One of the scenarios on 'Victoria - An empire under the suns' start at this date. Well work a look if anybody is interested in the period

What is Victoria-... exactly? A game, a book, ...?

[Mr White]

While I was studying financial management ( I'm in my last year master in public management) I found this in the book 'Overheidsbegrotingen (= government budgets) by prof H. Matthijs ( a professor of mine) the following :

In the period imediatly after the independance, Belgium didn't have any financial means. That is why the new country was financialy aided by the influencial bankers family " the Rothschilds". They have influenced the financial policy in Belgium for a long time. When we divide the rulers in name and the ones in power, the Rothschilds were certainly in the last category in Belgium. The new nation had a low income and the defences against the Dutch invasions were very expensive. That is why a gigantic loan of 48 million (old) gulden (+- 500 million euro) was closed with the Rothschilds.
This Jewish bankers family negotiated in secret with the Minister of finances (= the Chanselor of the Echequers) J.A. Coghen and this under supervision of King Leopold I. The conditions weren't very favourable because of the weak position of the Belgians.

Sorry if my translation isn't all that but I wanted to add this to prove that th Rothschilds did have major influence on the politics of the 19th century (and perhaps still today). A bit further Matthijs mentioned that the Rothschilds also financed the English in their campaign against Napoleon.
I think the Rothschildswould be a very interesting character to add to our game with a lot of influence and a lot of options strategy wise.

[mercian billman]

I think I'll take a crack at playing the Rothschilds. I'm assuming that my goal with them would be somewhere along the lines of making a lot of money, while at the same time trying to not piss off all of the major powers. Am I right?

[Mr White]

I think I'll take a crack at playing the Rothschilds. I'm assuming that my goal with them would be somewhere along the lines of making a lot of money, while at the same time trying to not piss off all of the major powers. Am I right?

Thanks for trying them. I really wanted them in because I believe that they will make the game more interesting and unpredictable.

Yes their goal is to gain influence and wealth without stepping on toes you shouldn't have. Your dealings will be more shady, I presume.
But you have one major trump card: you have money, something almost all nations lack.


I will post the prologue of our little game noon tomorrow ( in about 15 hours for people in a different timezone). I am always open for suggestions or questions.

[Mr White]

So the game starts today,
the players are:
- Antiochus III as Willem I
- Strike for the South as England
- Franconicus as Prussia
- ColdKnight as Russia
- Kagemusha as Austria
- Destroyer of Hope as France
- Discovery1 as the Belgian Rich
- Mercian billman as the Rothschilds

Other people can still comment on this thread or help a player but no other characters will be added to the game.

Wish you all a lot of fun with this game.

[Franconicus]

Announcement of the Government of His Royal Majesty Friedrich Wilhelm III, King of Prussia by Grace of God:

To improve the happiness of its people and increase the wealth of Europe His Majesty’s Government decided to introduce following reforms:

1) The government of His Royal Majesty guarantees every person religious liberty.
2) Every person from abroad who will take an oath on the Prussian constitution and the Prussian King will get full civil rights. This includes Jews.
3) Every Prussian subject has the right to choose his profession as well as the place where he wants to live. Every person has proprietary rights.
4) The Prussian custom law guarantees that customs are only taken at the frontiers. Prussia offers to form a Zollunion with other German territories.
5) His Royal Majesty’s Government announces the foundation of the ‘Prussian Society for Economy and Trade”. Its chairman is Friedrich List. Its goal is the promotion of the trade with other countries, especially the sea trade and the decrease of economical barriers.
6) His Royal Majesty’s Government offers to privilege the traders of other countries on the base of reciprocity.
7) His Royal Majesty patronizes the building of railway lines. The Deilthaler Eisenbahn Aktiengesellschaft will be transferred into the Königlich-Preußische Eisenbahngesellschaft. Every citizen can buy shares.
8) His Royal Majesty’s Government introduces compulsory education. Every child has to spend at least four years at a public school. The education is free. Veterans and priests will teach.


His Majesty Friedrich Willhelm III nominates Hans Ernst Karl Graf von Zieten as Commander-in–chief of the Western Army. His Majesty also announces the formation of a new Guard Corps. This Corps will be formed by aristocrats and exceptional talented commoners.

[AntiochusIII]

In this Great Day, the Royal Court of The Hague is pleased to announce several new Edicts at once, may the citizens of the Netherlands take heed of this Great Declaration.

His Majesty the King, Willem Orange-Nassau I of the United Kingdoms of the Netherlands, is pleased to announce that the grievances of the citizens of Southern Netherlands -- otherwise known as Belgium -- has been addressed in this Great Edict, a result of the cooperation of the loyal citizens of Southern Netherlands and the King. The Assembly of the Netherlands will be reformed as a result.

The Edict of Brussels

1. The United Kingdom of the Netherlands will now collect tariffs on foreign commodities including, but not limited to, wheat.

2. The United Kingdom of the Netherlands will expand the seat of the Assembly to give the people of the Southern regions a proper representation in His Majesty's government, as well as expanding the Assembly's authority to include veto on the domestic issues deemed oppressive. However, should that happen, the King reserve the right to issue a plebiscite in which the population entire nation, not only the elite, will vote. He cannot does that more than once in three months, save in crisis; in effect, this will put the Assembly into an almost equal position as the King.

3. The King is confirmed as the head of the nation both in legal and practical terms. His power cannot be superceded by any form of legal document.

4. The King reserves the right to issue military offices in all areas of the nation. He, however, will be willing to listen to grievances filed by the local population.

5. The United Kingdom of the Netherlands will, from now, establish tolerance of religion. All citizens of the Kingdom will now be able to choose their religion of choice.

The lawful citizens of all the Netherlands, take heed at this glorious day of justice.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Also, in the cause of the development of the United Kingdoms of the Netherlands, and the welfare of its citizens, another Edict has been issued to resolve the concerns of her people.

The First Edict of the Hague

1. The Edict confirms that the rights to property, to freedom of profession, and to freedom of religion belongs to all Dutch citizens.

2. The new Court of Appeals has been established. It shall, from now on, be open to receive grievances filed from all the Kingdom, whether they be from injustices of government officials, illegal threats, or legal disputes which cannot be resolved locally. It can only act at the grievances filed to it directly, or carried out in appeals from other courts, however. The Judges will be chosen by the King and select Assembly members and confirmed by the Assembly's authority. Justice, we are glad to declare, is a luxury that all in this Kingdom shall be able to afford.

3. Several new education institutions has been established and funded accordingly with His Majesty's personal wealth and the voluntary investment of private citizens of the Netherlands; their funding has taken a priority in the National investment:

The Hague Royal College, which includes:
- The Royal School of Navigation. Its charter indicates the goal of this institution to further enhance the skills of future Dutch mariners, captains of the Royal Navy, and private merchants who holds Dutch citizenship.
- The Royal School of the Army. Its purpose is to train future commanders of the Netherlands' army the worthy Art of War. Europe's most skilled military advisors and -- should they wish -- generals are invited to assume the professorships.
- The Royal Scholar's School of Humanities. Its charter indicates a wide range of cirriculum including the Humanities of the Renaissance and the Beaurecracy, stressing the legitimacy of Royal leadership and the philosophical views of Plato, among many others. This shall provide the world's top scholars in years to come.

The Amsterdam Royal University, which includes, but not limited to:
- The Amsterdam College of Laws
- The Amsterdam College of Humanities
- The Amsterdam College of Artisans, which shall teach the mastery a wide range of artisan occupations.
- The Amsterdam College of Economics
- The Amsterdam Council of the Merchants, whose membership will work in close cooperation with the University's professors in advising the King in the economic development of the Nation, and analyze as well as find solutions to today's economic problems.

The Brussels University, whose Charters and Colleges, as well as management authority, will be decided by the local Assembly, as the King willingly asserts. He invites the citizens of Brussels to take upon themselves the management of this most prestigious royally-approved institution. His Royal Majesty invites the citizens of Brussels to help fund the institution.

All three institutions, however, will be subject to the Assembly's authority at any time. The Board members are chosen with concern to merit, loyalty, and wisdom.

4. The governers Colonies of the United Kingdom of the Netherlands has been notified to carry out major reforms of the colonies, and is requested to send in plans of development and reform of their respective responsible areas to the Assembly within a month.

5. The Brussels Council of Merchant has been established; its purpose is the same to that of its Amsterdam sister; His Royal Majesty invites the Council members to closely cooperate with the University of Brussels, as well.

[Mr White]

Prologue

The year is 1829 and unrest is upon Europe. The major powers thougth that with the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo and the agreements at the Congress of Vienna that stability would return to western Europe. The revolutionistic France was back in the hands of an absolute monarch and although the Holy Alliance ended with the death of Tsar Alexander, its ideas were still a strong belief for its participants. But all's not well.

Everywhere people fight for independance, from Greece to newly formed nations in South America. The Europese middleclass is demanding more rights. Riots break out from Russia to England and everywhere in between. And even between the former allies distrust arises but a major incident has been avoided so far.

The dam (the United Kingdom of the Netherlands) against the revolutionist ideas in France is just barely holding. Although the southern provences share a lot of history with the northern provinces, it is clear that both aren't as compatible as first assumed.
The catholic south, especialy the clerics, are weary of the protestant north as well as of Willem I who is protestant.
The northern provinces had a substancial debt that it spreaded out over all the provinces. The Southern provinces which were in a much healthier financial state were not amused.
Willem I wants just one official language, Dutch of course, and starts some Dutch colleges and universities in the south. This will grant him the support of future intellectuels but enrages the French speaking bourgeoisie and nobility.
In addition the bourgeoisie were like the rest of Europe's rich but powerless demanding more rights.
If this wasn't enoughthe whole of Europe was dealing with social unrest because of an economical crisis. The labourers were calm for the moment but would this last?

the UKN was a potential timebomb. But this explosive situation is occuring in every country.

Suddenly disaster strikes in July when another uprising in France turns in to the July revolution. Charles X is replaced by Louis-Phillipe who restored a lot of reforms from the earlier revolution. he accepted limited power over the people.
There is a saying that goes 'when it is raining in Paris is is dripping in Brussels'. The Belgian nobility openly flirts with France. The suggestion of asking the French king to annex the Belgian provinces ones more aren't unfamiliar in the midst of the bourgeoisie either. They want to use this as a way to put more weight in when they ask Willem I ones more for a more liberal reign.


There is no more time for half measures. every country with an absolute reign must react and stabelize its country before it's to late. Concessions can be made but power will be lost! And besides fear can be far more effective than negotiating.

This is an uncertain time for all reigns in Europe but also posses great opportunities for nations and people who are able to profit from the immobility of others.

Rulers:
UKN: Willem I (absolute monarch)
France: Louis-Phillipe (constitutional monarch)
Prussia: Frederick William III (absolute monarch)
Russia: Nicholas I (absolute monarch)
Austria: Francis I (absolute monarch)
England: George IV (absolute monarch, not exactly but for the sake of the game let us pretend)

[Franconicus]

Mr White, I see that he is from a country that has not been ruled right for a long time.

Please note that he has to call me:

Friedrich Wilhelm III, King of Prussia by the Grace of God

[Mr White]

Enschuldigung Friedrich Wilhelm III

Please forgive me my ignorance, I just copied it from Wikipedia. I should have thought of it.

And on that 'country that hasn't been ruled right', I am proud on our compromise culture although it isn't always that effeciënt

[Lanemerkel1]

all the time where france and england were at war (1066 - 1814)

it's amazing their the only ones whoms motherlands haven't changed

[Lord Winter]

Question
How are secret info going to be handled there will be some stuff i dont want the others to see if i am at war.

[Franconicus]

DoH,
Just send them to me

[mercian billman]

An Announcement from the House of Rothschild

The House of Rothschild is pleased to see the democratic reforms that are taking place in Europe in addition to the new reforms, we are also pleased to see that the governments of Europe are taking steps to establish systems of public transportation and public education, in addition to expanding individual rights. This is perhaps the first time in history the nations of Europe have had the opportunity to establish lasting peace and stability. Unfortunately peace and stability cannot be maintained by hope alone; public transport and education cannot be built by our imaginations. All of these new projects will require solid planning and a solid financial base which the House of Rothschild can provide.

As Europes nations have made reforms to suit their people, the House of Rothschild will make changes to suit the institutions and people we serve.

I. The first change will be a lowering of interest rates for new loans. Old debts will remain in effect, but the House of Rothschild is willing to restructure those loans in order to allow the granting of new loans which will be used for public education or public transport.

II. The House itself will be restructured, in the past loans to governments have been made through our banking houses in London, Paris, Vienna, Frankfurt, and Naples. Within the next few months all government loans will be handled through the London house which will from henceforth be known as the Rothschild International Bank of London (RIBL). Debts owed to the other houses will remain in effect, but will know be handled by RIBL. The other banking houses will continue to operate as they always have by supporting smaller banks and offering commercial loans and savings.

These changes allow us to simplify our banking transactions not only for ourselves but for our customers as well.

[Franconicus]

Announcements of the Government of His Royal Majesty, Firedrich Wilhelm, King of Prussia, by the Grace of God

1) We announce the foundation of the Royal Bank of Prussia.

2) We call all German nations to meet at Frankfurt. Topics: The situation at France; Economy

3) We announce that We regard all persons who support terrorists for example with weapons or money, as terrorists.

[Kagemusha]

Announcements of the Government of His Royal Majesty, Firedrich Wilhelm, King of Prussia, by the Grace of God

2) We call all German nations to meet at Frankfurt. Topics: The situation at France; Economy.

Announcement of Francis the First, by the grace of God Emperor of Austria; King of Hungary, Bohemia, Dalmatia, Croatia, Slavonia, Galicia, and Lodomeria; Archduke of Austria; Duke of Lorraine, Salzburg, Würzburg, Franconia, Styria, Carinthia, and Carniola; Grand Duke of Kraków; Prince of Transylvania; Margrave of Moravia; Duke of Sandomir, Masovia, Lublin, Upper and Lower Silesia, Auschwitz and Zator, Teschen, and Friule; Prince of Berchtesgaden and Mergentheim; Princely Count of Habsburg, Gorizia, and Gradisca and of the Tyrol; and Margrave of Upper and Lower Lusatia and Istria.

We will accept the call of Our brother the King of Prussia and urge all the German Nations to present themselves there also.

F

[AntiochusIII]

What is Victoria-... exactly? A game, a book, ...?

Victoria: Empire Under the Sun (or something like that), a game by Paradox similar to Europa Universalis, and one of the favourites of many org patrons.

By its name I think you can guess its overall timeline.

[ShadesWolf]

What is Victoria-... exactly? A game, a book, ...?

Yes, as AntiochusIII stated, its an excellent games, that covers this period.