Traits and Ancillaries Frequently Asked Questions

[konny]

You may be seeing results of education.

;------------------------------------------
Trigger scholastic_learner
    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= academy
          and Trait Scholarly = 3
          and Trait Celtic < 1

    Affects MathematicsSkill  1  Chance  5
    Affects NaturalPhilosophySkill  1  Chance  5
    Affects PublicAtheism  1  Chance  5

"5" seems to be to much. I have about 1/3 to 1/2 of all characters that spent some time in Rome ending up with the "Hates the Gods" trait. I don't know how much atheism was spread in the Hellenic world, but the Republican Romans were a quite religious folk, in particular the ruling class in public. The chance should be either "1" or the trigger should ask for a temple of the same size.

[Bactron]

I would like to ask what would happen if I tried to edit the descr strattxt file and tried to add ethnicity traits to starting rebel characters? Meaning for example that celtic general in Euboranum would have the boii trait, celtic rebel general in Tylis would have Aegosage ethnicity, the greek rebel general in Krete would have the Kres trait and so on. Would this mess things up, could this have some negative effect on script in the case that I would manage to do it properly without any mistakes?

[fahrenheit]

"5" seems to be to much. I have about 1/3 to 1/2 of all characters that spent some time in Rome ending up with the "Hates the Gods" trait.

Well there could be a few things, having a scriptorium can lead to atheism. If they are more philosophical they can start to develop atheistic traits.

[bovi]

"5" seems to be to much. I have about 1/3 to 1/2 of all characters that spent some time in Rome ending up with the "Hates the Gods" trait. I don't know how much atheism was spread in the Hellenic world, but the Republican Romans were a quite religious folk, in particular the ruling class in public. The chance should be either "1" or the trigger should ask for a temple of the same size.

That sounds really odd. A really small minority of your guys should be so scholarly, as only intelligent, lazy and uncharismatic people should have it, and out of those only 19% who are staying at an academy for the first two turns of their in-game lives, unless they turn out to be pedantic instead. I think.

[konny]

That sounds really odd. A really small minority of your guys should be so scholarly, as only intelligent, lazy and uncharismatic people should have it, and out of those only 19% who are staying at an academy for the first two turns of their in-game lives, unless they turn out to be pedantic instead. I think.

The chance seems to be quite higher. I don't know if there are other triggers that affect it too, but from gameplay experince I can say that there are way to many athesits "breeded". All my characters spend their first four in-game years in Rome and some return for shorter or longer periods. To call a halt to it I
have now torn down the academy in Rome and sent the youngbloods to the school in Capua.

[konny]

That sounds really odd. A really small minority of your guys should be so scholarly, as only intelligent, lazy and uncharismatic people should have it, and out of those only 19% who are staying at an academy for the first two turns of their in-game lives, unless they turn out to be pedantic instead. I think.

I have checked it: Of the characters that are hating the gods is only one that "Sharp/Uncharismatic/Languorous". The other five have any ICE rating, including three the exact opposite: "Dull/Charismatic/Vital". Example:



They all have in common that they had spent several years in Rome when I had the academy there, they are all of the same generation. And it is more than 1/2 of this generation affected.

[bovi]

There's also assassination attempts, unlikely here. If their father was an atheist, they stand a noticeable chance of being that themselves. And a fair chance of "being born" with lack of faith (choosing for themselves), of course. Also a number of ancillaries that you may pick up in academies (such as philosophers) encourage atheist views, very effectively.

The following trigger doesn't require such a degree of scholarly behaviour, so along with ancillaries I believe this is the cause. If a character gains atheism points from the father (20% chance for 2 points) and character initialization too (chance varies for ethnicity/family, for 1 or 2 points, let's say 1 here), it leaves 33% chance of increasing to hating the gods by studying at a scriptorium for 5 years.

Trigger scriptorium
  WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= scriptorium
          and Trait SpartanTraining < 1
          and Trait Scholarly > 1

  Affects NaturalPhilosophySkill  2  Chance  1
  Affects ArchitectSkill  2  Chance  1
  Affects GoodEngineer  2  Chance  1
  Affects GoodAdministrator  2  Chance  1
  Affects PublicAtheism  2  Chance  1

[konny]

There's also assassination attempts, unlikely here. If their father was an atheist, they stand a noticeable chance of being that themselves. And a fair chance of "being born" with lack of faith (choosing for themselves), of course. Also a number of ancillaries that you may pick up in academies (such as philosophers) encourage atheist views, very effectively.

The following trigger doesn't require such a degree of scholarly behaviour, so along with ancillaries I believe this is the cause. If a character gains atheism points from the father (20% chance for 2 points) and character initialization too (chance varies for ethnicity/family, for 1 or 2 points, let's say 1 here), it leaves 33% chance of increasing to hating the gods by studying at a scriptorium for 5 years.

I think I can exclude the fathers because all atheists are of the same generation (the 3rd in game). The ancillaries are more or less the same for all characters who stay in a town with a school or higher. So it must have been the academy; there also so far no more atheists of the 4th generation, but that might again increase when the sons of these five come of age.

Let's say the Greek philosophers had taken over the academy in Rome which was therefore closed by the Pontifex Maximus for unreligious behaviour.

Trigger scriptorium
  WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

    Condition EndedInSettlement
          and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
          and SettlementBuildingExists >= scriptorium
          and Trait SpartanTraining < 1
          and Trait Scholarly > 1

  Affects NaturalPhilosophySkill  2  Chance  1
  Affects ArchitectSkill  2  Chance  1
  Affects GoodEngineer  2  Chance  1
  Affects GoodAdministrator  2  Chance  1
  Affects PublicAtheism  2  Chance  1

Before the next campaign with a civilized faction I will exclude these effects for towns with a temple of the same size.

[bovi]

Hmm, that is odd. I think those numbers should be switched around, thanks for pointing.

[bovi]

Fixed in the internal version, along with a number of other similar cases. Thanks again .

Edit: That is, the 1% chance of gaining multiple points, not the temple cancels atheism thing. This is because there are other triggers that give public faith from staying with a temple of the god they worship.

[d'Arthez]

I don't know if it has been reported, but I have a "Basileus" of the Arche Seleukia who has the traut "Mints Coins for Himself" (with the +3 Unrest and -30% bribe penalties). A Basileus would indeed mint coins of himself, and should not be penalised for it. It seems he got the trait after becoming Basileus which strikes me as odd.

Something similar holds for the trait of "Royal Friend" for the Basileus or Basileus in waiting. If he is already the Basileus, it should be impossible to get that trait.

[bovi]

Thanks, fixed now.

[konny]

Oh, fine!

When you have the time, please take a look at the two traits that affect siege command. They seem to be triggered by buildings (the wall supposingly) but do not exclude each other - or better the anti-traits do not exclude the other's pro-trait. I had a character that had +3 siege from the one trait and -3 siege from the other trait at the same time, without fighting more than two siege battles (both won) in his life. I would suggest merging them as one trait with more levels and several triggers.

That is if you are in the mood for merging traits, what I would warmly suggest in the case of some personality traits. Example: I had stumbled on the law enforcement traits, like "authorian; +2 unrest +4 law" and "strict governor; +2 unrest +4 law" (may be the leves are named differently). Because characters that gain the one trait also usually gain the other trait, and because both do say basically the same of the person for roleplaying reasons, they might as well be one trait with more levels and several triggers. Another thing of this kind would be the hughe number of different management and influence traits that are not culture-specific.

[bovi]

Trait GoodSiegeAttacker
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 4
    AntiTraits BadSiegeAttacker, BadEngineer

Trait BadSiegeAttacker
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 3
    AntiTraits GoodSiegeAttacker, GoodEngineer

Trait GoodSiegeDefender
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 4
    AntiTraits BadSiegeDefender

Trait BadSiegeDefender
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 3
    AntiTraits GoodSiegeDefender

What's the problem with these you say? As far as I can see the antitraits are fine?

[konny]

Trait GoodSiegeAttacker
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 4
    AntiTraits BadSiegeAttacker, BadEngineer

Trait BadSiegeAttacker
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 3
    AntiTraits GoodSiegeAttacker, GoodEngineer

Trait GoodSiegeDefender
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 4
    AntiTraits BadSiegeDefender

Trait BadSiegeDefender
    Characters family
    NoGoingBackLevel 3
    AntiTraits GoodSiegeDefender

What's the problem with these you say? As far as I can see the antitraits are fine?

hmmm. Unfortuantly the character has died allready, so I can't post a screen of it. The negatvive trait was "apalling engineer" but he also had a +3 siege from another trait, of what I am not sure what it was.

[bovi]

He could be a GoodSiegeDefender and yet an appalling engineer. Doesn't know anything about making defences, but knows how to use what he's got. I guess.

[I Am Herenow]

Maybe both GoodSiegeDefender and BadEngineer should at least decrease the chance of the character getting the other trait?

[Squid]

What does defending a seige (at least in RTW) have to do with building seige engines, they aren't related, so being good/bad at defending seiges had no relation to building seige equipement. Also as bovi pointed out, you can be good at using seige equipement without having any clue on how to build it, or no clue how to use seige equipement but be effective at building it, so even the good/bad seigeattacker traits really shouldn't be linked to the engineering traits.

[bovi]

I'm not sure, but I think these traits are left as they were in vanilla actually. At least I don't know the rationale behind them, just thinking out loud.

[SaberHRE]

In Scipio Asina's biography, its written that his nickname Asina was due to his stubborness. Wasn't the nickname given to him as to mock his shameful loss in a sea battle against the Carthaginians, where Asina would mean She-ass, which is considered to be afraid of water.

[Atilius]

In Scipio Asina's biography, its written that his nickname Asina was due to his stubborness. Wasn't the nickname given to him as to mock his shameful loss in a sea battle against the Carthaginians, where Asina would mean She-ass, which is considered to be afraid of water.

There is no way to know exactly how he acquired the agnomen "Asina", however:

Agnomina appear to be more common in families like the Cornelii Scipiones who used a very limited number of praenomina. All of the males in this family appear to have been named Cnaeus, Lucius, or Publius. This was also the case for the Fabius Maximus family, which gave the praenomen Quintus to almost all of its sons. It seems reasonable that these families used the agnomen to distinguish among their members. For this reason, they were probably acquired quite early in life.

You mention an explanation of how Cn. Cornelius Scipio Asina might have acquired his agnomen: this is found only in Macrobius' Saturnalia, written in the early 5th C AD, 650+ years later. This doen't mean the story is false, but it sheds considerable doubt upon it. The fact that "Asina" means "she-ass" isn't very enlightening either. Many cognomina and agnomina spring from less than complementary words: Ahala means "armpit" and Brutus - the cognomen of the founder of the Republic - means "stupid".

[LorDBulA]

and Brutus - the cognomen of the founder of the Republic - means "stupid".

Whow this is great

[Ymarsakar]

PublicAtheism is also self-perpetuating I believe.

The problem isn't so much that the PublicAtheism is getting all that many points from buildings and ancillaries (even though it does), the problem is that the reverse of PublicAtheism is only acquired by building temples, which aren't all that common after building it once or twice. And that once or twice only gives you less than 100% of acquiring one point of anti atheism.

So it is much easier to have publicatheism advance than to have its opposite. Which is how come many FMs come to get the Hatred of the Gods trait, max level atheism.

My solution was to lessen the chances for ancillaries to give publicatheism and to provide it from academies. As I have noticed, my FMs rarely get max level PublicFaith even now.

[bovi]

It's not only when building a temple, it's also when staying in a settlement with a temple that matches his choice of deity. Therefore, when people of different choices convene in one city to study, some of them will have no temple to offset their scholarly view on religion.

[Ymarsakar]

it's also when staying in a settlement with a temple that matches his choice of deity.

The thing with that is that the percentage chance for becoming a worshipper is too low on each turn. Family members can go for many years without triggering, which only leaves the only reliable way of becoming a worshipper of a certain deity through building temples to that deity.

So first it has to trigger the trait to worship the temple in the city. Then it has to trigger, at a very low percentage value, the trait that is opposite of atheism.

Usually by the time all this has happened, the numerous atheism percentages from universities and ancillaries has already put the character at level 2 of atheism.

Instead of trying to micromanage characters and make them build temples just so they can avoid becoming an atheist, I set the chance to become a worshipper at 25% if they are eligible. This should have a good chance to convert a family member in a year.

I cannot remember exactly what the eligibility lines affect this balance, but it would definitely be a bad thing if having a level 1 atheism makes someone ineligible to become a worshipper.

[kemozz]

i was trying to make the roman provincial governor ancillaries easier to acquire so i removed the movement penalty from the code so instead of:

Trigger acquire_Governor_of_Sicily_Syrakousai
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition FactionType seleucid
and EndedInSettlement
and RemainingMPPercentage = 100
and IsGeneral
and SettlementName Syrakousai
and I_SettlementOwner Messana = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Lilibeo = seleucid
and SettlementBuildingExists > gov4
and SettlementBuildingExists < govparthian
and Attribute Electability < 11
and not FactionwideAncillaryExists Governor_of_Sicily

AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Sicily Chance 100
Affects NumAncillariesAcquired 1 Chance 100

now i have this

Trigger acquire_Governor_of_Sicily_Syrakousai
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
Condition FactionType seleucid
and EndedInSettlement
and IsGeneral
and SettlementName Syrakousai
and I_SettlementOwner Messana = seleucid
and I_SettlementOwner Lilibeo = seleucid
and SettlementBuildingExists > gov4
and SettlementBuildingExists < govparthian
and Attribute Electability < 11
and not FactionwideAncillaryExists Governor_of_Sicily

AcquireAncillary Governor_of_Sicily Chance 100
Affects NumAncillariesAcquired 1 Chance 100

now for some reason i am still unable to get some of the ancillaries i can get these right away:
Governor of Sicily
Governor of Corsica and Sardinia
Governor of Africa Vetus
Governor of Hispania Citerior
Governor of Hispania Ulterior
Governor of Gallia Narbonensis
Governor of Macedonia
Governor of Gallia Cisalpina

but i can't seem to acquire the following:
Governor of Achaea
Governor of Asia
Governor of Bithynia
Governor of Africa Nova
Governor of Syria
Governor of Judaea
Governor of Gallia Comata
Governor of Cyrenacia

i was able to get the governor of achaea and asia once maybe but not with the same ease as the others. does anyone have any suggestions as in why some of those governor ancillaries are easier to acquire than others?

thanks

[konny]

May be, your governors had allready eight ancillaries?

[kemozz]

May be, your governors had allready eight ancillaries?

nope, i just can't seem to get them no matter how long i keep my governors in there, is there other constraints on acquiring these ancillaries? maybe age, senate office, etc.?

[konny]

No, even Military Tribunes of 20 years can get the ancillaries.

[Disciple of Tacitus]

There must be some trigger some where or is there some kind of randomness to it? I'm jumping in the middle of the conversation, so please excuse me. My own current gameplay experince is strange. One FM has been the only FM in Corsica Sardinia for 4 yrs now - nothing. One FM was in Macedonia for not even a yr and got Provincial Governor at age 16! One FM has been in Gallia Citerior/Narbonesis for yrs and yrs and nothing. I just moved a highly qualifed FM into Sicilia and will await the result. There is room on the ancillaries on all the FMs.
Anyone have ideas? Is there anything we could track, that may help things out? I don't mind keeping better records on these stationary guys - if it would help out.