Traits and Ancillaries Frequently Asked Questions

[Malrubius]

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (AND THEIR ANSWERS) FOR EUROPA BARBARORUM TRAITS AND ANCILLARIES

These are questions that have come up in testing and in discussions about our system. Feel free to post your own questions about the system here. For bug reports, use the bug subforum.

Q. What's this about Intelligence, Charisma, and/or Energy? And Temperament, Loyalty, and Selflessness?

A. These are the general's "Primary Traits". Together or singly, they determine how he develops. The traits and ancillaries system for Europa Barbarorum attempts to add to the historical immersion for the player, to make him feel like he is really there and playing the rulers of his faction. To accomplish this, a new system was developed, where each general has a set of 3 Ability stats and 3 Personality stats, similar to what you might find in a role-playing game. These stats are: (Ability Traits) - Intelligence, Charisma, and Vitality; (Personality Traits) - Selflessness, Temperament, and Loyalty. These 6 primary traits are the backbone of the EB system, and they affect the acquisition of many of the other traits and even ancillaries.

Q. How should a player approach this new system of traits and ancillaries?

A. For best results, you should play your generals as if they were real people making their own decisions. Try to have them play to their strengths. Don't have a Selfless general impose high taxes and exterminate cities, or he may become disatisfied with your leadership. Vigorous generals will enjoy force marches more than Languorous generals. Intelligent generals will benefit more from studying in an academy than Stupid generals.

Q. My general gets bored from sitting in town. What happens next? How can I stop or reverse this?

A. Energetic generals are most likely to have this problem. They want to be doing something, not just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. If you're not keeping them busy, at least occasionally, they'll find diversions to pass the time, like drinking, womanizing, or gambling. It doesn't take much to keep them occupied; a tour of the province or stepping out of town for some fresh air might be sufficient. A battle is a great means of alleviating boredom, as well.

It's best to take corrective action immediately once you detect he's become bored. Once he's taken up a vice or two, it may be too late to correct his behavior!



Command Stars, Combat, and Morale
-----------------------
Q. I've been having a little trouble amassing command stars for my generals. Have the good commander traits been done away with in lieu of the newer traits, or is there a genuine problem with attaining them?

A. The GoodCommander trait has been replaced with GoodLeader and GoodTactician, to represent the differing skillsets needed to make a great general. Charisma limits advancement in GoodLeader, while Intelligence limits GoodTactician. The way to rapidly rise in either trait is to fight battles where the odds are against your general. Winning is good, but even losing can provide valuable experience and insight. Also, the general may not gain the star immediately after the battle, but months or even years later, depending on his Energy trait. High Energy generals are more ambitious, tenacious, and are just better at improving themselves than a lazy genius. Generals inferior in Intelligence, Charisma, and Energy will find it almost impossible to get beyond a certain point.

Q. My general's troops have low morale. What causes this? How can I change it?

A. EB has a somewhat complicated system for morale of the soldiers commanded by a general. It starts with a type of base or equilibrium morale, which depends on the general's skill and command experience, and on the situation the men are in. Certain events may provide a transient boost above this equilibrium, or provide a temporary minus.

Ways to raise your men's morale:
- Win a battle (gain bonuses)
- be in or near your home territory (gain bonus)
- be besieged and be commanded by a charismatic general

Ways to lower your men's morale:
- lose a battle (gain negatives)
- general loitering in town may let discipline get sloppy (lose bonuses)
- lay siege to a settlement (lose bonuses)
- be besieged
- be away from home (gain negatives)
- be force marching
- be outside a town when winter arrives



Influence
----------------
Q. I was thinking about this as I played the game. Shouldn't all family members start with a minimum of say 2 or 3 influence just because they are part of your family? Back then being the part of a royal family, be it the son of a king or some distant cousin, earned you influence. Even now, you have the billion dollar families who can sway opinions and whatnot by just being who they are, or get access to things more easily.
I just think that all family members should start with 2 or 3 influence because of being from that family, and from there it can go up or down depending on traits. It just got old having family members who had no influence, for no reason, and struggled to control a province.

A. Since Influence is a measure of not only how much a man can bend the populace to his will, but also his pull with the nobility and even the other members of the ruling family, it seems some men should be better at this than others, and therefore Influence will vary.

Faction Leader/Heirs
-----------------------

Q. What's this "Victory Conditions" trait that my Faction Leader has? It looks like a laundry list of settlements

A. It's more like a to-do list :) This general (or one of his successors) must accomplish these things to be named "winner" of the game. By "Raid", it means you have to have conquered (or bribed) the place, but you didn't have to hold it for more than a turn. "Own" means just that: you must have the place in your possession to win the game. Destroy or Outlast is like in the original RTW: that faction must no longer exist for you to win. You can kill them, or somebody else can, either way.


Q. Why does my Faction Leader/Heir have Basileus/Shophet/Princep/etc., for a trait instead of Faction Leader/Faction Heir? Will all my faction leaders/heirs have this trait?

A. Yes, they will. It is there to provide a more immersive and historical-feeling gameplay experience. Nobody was called "Faction Leader" in reality, but people were called "Basileus". Plus, different Faction Leaders get different bonuses.



Faction/Culture-Specific Traits
---------------------------------
Q. I've noticed there are quite a few faction and culture-specific traits. I usually have characters with these traits, but a lot of times they go sour (for example: Proxenos to Proxenos Under Suspicion). Is there any way to keep these traits from becoming negative?

A. That Proxenos one has a good chance of going bad because it can happen when your faction is on a war footing. What I'd like to do, eventually, is have the Proxenos trait apply to a particular faction, and only turn sour when/if you go to war with them.

A lot of them, like Emporiarches, require certain primary traits to turn out good, and if the general is stupid or corrupt, they'll turn sour.




Family Tree: Births/Adoptees/Men of the Hour/Bribed Enemy Generals
------------------------------
Q. Is there anyway to increase the random traits that a suitor has? I swear 9 out of 10 suitors have no traits, 1 command star, or have been in wars. That's all I ever get. I need to wait 20 years per daughter before I can get a guy with 1 scroll of management.

A. We are including many more triggers for suitors and adoptees, so they will be more than just drunken veterans. There will be as much variety among them as among the born family members.


Q. Whenever I bribe some family members of another faction, they shows up as children of one of my own family members in the family tree.

This usually stops them from having children of their own which isn't historically accurate I think. Isn't there a way to prevent this?

A. The family tree is the way RTW represents all your generals. Everyone but the guy at the top must have a father. And a general can only have 4 children. I don't like to say this, but this is a hard-coded representation and isn't something that can be modded.

Also, births and offers of adoption and marriage are determined based on how many provinces you have compared to how many generals. If the ratio is too low, you'll have more births and offers. Bribing generals tends to shut down births as a result.



Q. Is it possible to have a lot more generals than provinces?


A. Well, you can have a bunch of generals to provinces in several different ways:

1. If you have it that way at the start (1 province and 4 generals, for example)
2. If you lose a lot of provinces, without losing any generals
3. If you bribe a lot of generals to join you


The game is not going to be giving you many children, adoptions or suitors if you have what it deems to be enough generals (around 1 general for every 2 or 3 provinces).





"Missions" for Generals
----------------------
Q. I hear that EB has missions for its generals to accomplish. What's up with that?

A. There are several different types of missions. Have a Seleukid or Makedonian general capture Alexandreia and you'll get one of the missions. The Roman generals have their Triumphs, by defeating a lot of Gauls, Makedonians, Britons, Carthaginians, or Germans. A Seleukid general who fights Parthians, Baktrians, or Hayasdan may decide he wants some cataphracts for his army. Or have a general belonging to a Hellenistic faction sit in town during Spring in 272, 268, 264, 260 BC, or any year that fits that pattern. There's some little thing they had in Greece every 4 summers that he might be able to take part in, especially if he has high Energy.

Q. What are the steps for my Roman general obtain a triumph?

A. The first step on the road back to Rome in triumph is the "Vanquisher of Carthaginians" trait, obtained by winning a battle or two. Next, after more conquest, you'll get "Conqueror of Carthago" (It wouldn't be much of a spoiler to tell you that conquering Kart-hadast itself will get you closer to a triumph than conquering Lilibeo). (similar traits and criteria exist for most of Rome's immediate neighbors).

That settles those requirements that can be easily obtained by your general. Next his men must name him "Imperator" (commander). Preferably, after a numerically important and difficult battle, won decisively. In history, there were instances of a general paying his men to get the title, but we're not going to let you off that easy.

Exact criteria for Imperator trait:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Number of enemies on the battlefield:
Small unit size: more than 250
Normal size: more than 500
Large size: more than 1000
Huge size: more than 1500

More than 30% of the enemy killed (you want a clear or heroic victory)
Even odds or worse
Attacker or defender, doesn't matter

Finally, after being named "Imperator" by his men, the general must be awarded a triumph by the Senate. In history, they sometimes made men wait or refused to award it, so having some pull (i.e., Influence) helps here

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(more than 4 is preferable, and 8+ is great!)

.

Good luck!

Fighting rebels won't get you a triumph, but a Corono Ovalis is possible there, by winning a difficult battle decisively.

Olympics for Hellenistic Generals
-------------------------------------
Q. What does a player need to do to have his general compete in the Olympics?

A. Have a family member of a Hellenic faction who isn't busy fighting or doing something else, who is also fairly young and athletic, when spring of 272, or 268, or 264 BC, etc., rolls around. Then he might become an Olympic competitor (this is more likely for Makedonians and the Koinon Hellenon, least likely for Baktrians). So, not much has to be done, except to keep the guy inactive during spring of Olympic years, so he is able to "travel" to Korinthos.


Agents (Assassins, Diplomats, and Spies)
------------------------------------------
Q. Can assassins be stacked so they have increased chance of success?

A. No, they can't be stacked so that their talents can be combined on a mission. Also remember, that the assassin agent, like the spy and diplomat, isn't just one guy. It's actually an abstraction that represents spy networks and teams of agents. I explored the possibility and discovered that I could *not* provide a boost to one agent just because someone else was nearby.


Q. What's this about a spy network?

A. A spy who spends several consecutive turns (at least 2 years) in a larger settlement (one with at least a forum-level trade building) may develop enough contacts and information-gathering capability that he becomes better at passing information back to his superiors, and better at surviving undetected. If he leaves the settlement for a turn, though, his network will collapse without his leadership.


Ancillaries/Retinues
---------------------
Q. When I click on my new generals for the first time they seem to get an ancillary each - such as Tutor and Spear Carrier. What's going on?

A. We're trying to have more realistic and historical traits and ancillaries. We can restrict who gets what trait based on their ability and talent, but ancillaries can be transferred at will (by the player, anyway, the AI doesn't transfer).

Ancillary transfer is historical, but it upsets the careful balance we're trying to achieve if a general just gets 10 stars or wreaths by having a bunch of ancillaries. There is only so much that an assistant can do; the rest must come from the general/governor himself. So we must come up with some way to have our cake and eat it, too.

Hence this imperfect solution:
The plan is to use that "Tutor" ancillary to block off ancillary transfers so that the most powerful boosting ancillaries (that give influence, command, and management boosts) are not all dumped on the high-capability generals by the crafty player.

The major hard-coded limitation that has been discovered in the VnVs area comes in here; since only 3 ancillaries can be listed as excluded ancillaries for any one ancillary, we have to have a generic ancillary "Tutor" that we'll use to block off the good boosting ancillaries. Getting the Tutor will boost traits, though, because he'll teach the general as if the general were in a settlement with an academy. So the general is not losing out too bad.

Also, I've put something in to have ancillary acquisition tied into Charisma. More Charismatic generals can acquire more ancillaries. They can hand those out to the less-qualified generals, but eventually people will stop wanting to work for the guy if he just sends them away with a dunce.

Q. Will barbarians be able to get more ancillaries in Europa Barbarorum than they did in the original game?

A. Originally, some ancillaries were outright unavailable to the barbarian culture. But why couldn't a 'barbarian' recognize the usefulness of an architect, if he wanted to order the construction of a building?

We've also worked around some bugs from the vanilla files, so that now generals can get ancillaries after coming of age or getting married. So that's almost as good as adding a few new ancillaries.

However, ancillaries will be a little bit rarer in EB than they were in the original game. Some historical ancillaries might only be available in one settlement, like Athenai, Alexandreia, or Roma, making these cities prime real estate for generals who want to increase their entourage.



Generals vs. Captains
-------------------------
Q. What is the difference between a general and a captain?

A. A general is a member of your family tree (through birth, marriage, or adoption) and he can get traits. Captains can lead armies, and can be promoted to general after a battle or at the start of your turn, but they cannot get traits unless they are adopted into your family.


Q. So, if captains can't get traits, does this mean they'll be better than generals sometimes? Like during the winter? Especially if you're making command stars hard to get?

A. Generals will be better than captains, in general. ;) They can move farther, and make better commanders and governors, through their Command stars, Influence wreaths, Management scrolls, and other abilities. Some will be incompetent in certain areas, or maybe even utterly incompetent in all areas, but most of the time you'd rather have a general (even if only as a heavy cav unit).
We don't want to punish you for having generals; we just want to make them more interesting, and use them to increase the immersive experience. The abilities of your general may fluctuate, however, depending on the situation.


Q. Can you make it so that you can promote captains to generals?

A. No. BI may include a feature like this, so this is not the last word. As of this writing, it appears the number of generals you can have is a function of how many provinces you control. The more provinces, the more generals. The game will fill any perceived gaps with adoptions, marriages, or births. The 'ideal' ratio is something around 2-3 provinces per general, and may vary depending on the faction.

Q. Where can I go for more detailed information on the traits and ancillaries system?

A. The EB website has a page that lists the major features, as well as links to download a short slideshow displaying the primary traits, as well as a detailed set of html documentation listing nearly every trait, trigger, and ancillary in the game.

[Big_John]

when will the bug subforum be open for beta testers? just curious.

[khelvan]

As soon as Tosa or whoever else gets to it.

[TB666]

I don't know if this is the right thread or not but it's related.
When a general extreminate a settlement they get the "bad sleeper"(or something like that) trait.
It is a cool trait but would it be possible that only a certain type of general wouldn't or would get this trait if he exteriminates the settlement ??

[Malrubius]

It should be that only selfless generals get pangs of conscience for exterminating populations (Restless Sleeper trait). It should take at least 3 exterminations before this occurs.

There are also 3 levels of selflessness (which are hidden from the player--you don't know exactly how smart or charismatic or loyal your general is naturally, but you have a general idea, and can discern more by watching his performance over time), and the chances are different for each level.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It should be that only selfless generals get pangs of conscience for exterminating populations (Restless Sleeper trait). It should take at least 3 exterminations before this occurs.

There are also 3 levels of selflessness (which are hidden from the player--you don't know exactly how smart or charismatic or loyal your general is naturally, but you have a general idea, and can discern more by watching his performance over time), and the chances are different for each level.

I hardly ever exterminate populations, but the damt Aitolians deserved it . My Mak general got the trait from that one time though (I'm sure it was just one time). He is unselfish/optimistic/loyal though.

[Malrubius]

Ok, I see what happened. My documentation lists a threshold of 3, but the real threshold is 1, so it can happen after 1 extermination (makes sense). Your general may have the "Selfish" label, but he's not totally evil, just out for himself. Even someone like that might have trouble rationalizing away thousands of deaths. He probably had a 50% chance to get the trait. I may do some tweaking to the threshold and triggers to get more varied results.

[Malrubius]

FAQ update:

1. Added more detail to the spy network question (requires forum or better)
2. question about bored
3. question about morale

Q. My general gets bored from sitting in town. What happens next? How can I stop or reverse this?

A. Energetic generals are most likely to have this problem. They want to be doing something, not just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. If you're not keeping them busy, at least occasionally, they'll find diversions to pass the time, like drinking, womanizing, or gambling. It doesn't take much to keep them occupied; a tour of the province or stepping out of town for some fresh air might be sufficient. A battle is a great means of alleviating boredom, as well.

It's best to take corrective action immediately once you detect he's become bored. Once he's taken up a vice or two, it may be too late to correct his behavior!



Q. My general's troops have low morale. What causes this? How can I change it?

A. EB has a somewhat complicated system for morale of the soldiers commanded by a general. It starts with a type of base or equilibrium morale, which depends on the general's skill and command experience, and on the situation the men are in. Certain events may provide a transient boost above this equilibrium, or provide a temporary minus.

Ways to raise your men's morale:
- Win a battle (gain bonuses)
- be in or near your home territory (gain bonus)
- be besieged and be commanded by a charismatic general

Ways to lower your men's morale:
- lose a battle (gain negatives)
- general loitering in town may let discipline get sloppy (lose bonuses)
- lay siege to a settlement (lose bonuses)
- be besieged
- be away from home (gain negatives)
- be force marching
- be outside a town when winter arrives

[Malrubius]

Q. What are the steps for my Roman general obtain a triumph?

A. The first step on the road back to Rome in triumph is the "Vanquisher of Carthaginians" trait, obtained by winning a battle or two. Next, after more conquest, you'll get "Conqueror of Carthago" (It wouldn't be much of a spoiler to tell you that conquering Kart-hadast itself will get you closer to a triumph than conquering Lilibeo). (similar traits and criteria exist for most of Rome's immediate neighbors).

That settles those requirements that can be easily obtained by your general. Next his men must name him "Imperator" (commander). Preferably, after a numerically important and difficult battle, won decisively. In history, there were instances of a general paying his men to get the title, but we're not going to let you off that easy.

Exact criteria for Imperator trait:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Number of enemies on the battlefield:
Small unit size: more than 250
Normal size: more than 500
Large size: more than 1000
Huge size: more than 1500

More than 30% of the enemy killed (you want a clear or heroic victory)
Even odds or worse
Attacker or defender, doesn't matter

Finally, after being named "Imperator" by his men, the general must be awarded a triumph by the Senate. In history, they sometimes made men wait or refused to award it, so having some pull (i.e., Influence) helps here

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(more than 4 is preferable, and 8+ is great!)

.

Good luck!

Fighting rebels won't get you a triumph, but a Corono Ovalis is possible there, by winning a difficult battle decisively.

[Ergion]

edited: wrong threat

[Malrubius]

Working around or eliminating certain traits from showing up, for testing purposes

If you would like to eliminate certain traits from showing up, it's simply a matter of commenting out a few triggers. The file you'll need to edit will be in your Data folder, and is called export_descr_character_traits.txt.

1. To remove winter and summer campaigning movement restrictions:
   Search for the following code:
   

   ;------------------------------------------
   Trigger winter_has_arrived_and_may_shut_down_campaigning
       WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
   
       Condition Trait Season = 4
             and Trait HasWinterCampaigning < 1
   
       Affects WinterEffects  1  Chance  100
   
   ;------------------------------------------
   Trigger summer_has_arrived_and_may_shut_down_campaigning
       WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
   
       Condition Trait Season = 2
             and Trait NoSummerCampaigning > 0
   
       Affects SummerEffects  1  Chance  100

   and comment it out, like so:
   

   ;------------------------------------------
   ;Trigger winter_has_arrived_and_may_shut_down_campaigning
   ;    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
   ;
   ;    Condition Trait Season = 4
   ;          and Trait HasWinterCampaigning < 1
   ;
   ;    Affects WinterEffects  1  Chance  100
   ;
   ;------------------------------------------
   ;Trigger summer_has_arrived_and_may_shut_down_campaigning
   ;    WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
   ;
   ;    Condition Trait Season = 2
   ;          and Trait NoSummerCampaigning > 0
   ;
   ;    Affects SummerEffects  1  Chance  100

2. To stop the forced marching trait from showing up:
   Comment out this section (put ';' in front of every line):
   

   ;------------------------------------------
   Trigger forced_marching_flag_set
       WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
   
       Condition CharacterIsLocal
             and RemainingMPPercentage < 10 
   	    and Trait ForcedMarching < 1
   
       Affects ForcedMarching  1  Chance  100

3. To fix the Desert Warrior bug, find this section:
   

   ;------------------------------------------
   ; Desert Warrior
   ;------------------------------------------
   Trigger General_in_Arid_Region_becomes_Desert_Warrior
       WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd
   
       Condition AridRegion > 0

   Everywhere you see Condition AridRegion or and AridRegion, replace them with Condition Trait AridRegion or and Trait AridRegion. In fact, you can do a global find-and-replace for these two phrases.
   
   1. Find: Condition AridRegion
      Replace with: Condition Trait AridRegion
   2. Find: and AridRegion
      Replace with: and Trait AridRegion
   
   

[Malrubius]

"Young" Diplomats, Spies, etc.

If your diplomat has been around for 10 years, he shouldn't be young anymore. Anybody have a case of this happening? Since I can't tell how old a character is, there's no way to get the right age when he's recruited. I may need to change the description to reflect the reality, if we're getting new diplomats recruited who are 50 years old.

If you've had a diplomat for 10 years and he's still young, we have a bug.

Please let me know if you've had a diplomat, spy, or agent for more than 10 years, and he's still listed as "Young".

[Malrubius]

What do Command stars do?

Nobody's really sure what it does. I believe it gives a morale boost to the men close to the general (close being determined by the number of stars). It might make these men attack better, but investigation hasn't seemed to show this. It probably helps in autocalc battles.


Details here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44549

It doesn't make AI generals fight smarter, it doesn't make your men obey their commands better.

In EB, higher command translates generally to higher morale (depending on the situation, of course). It's a major factor in the traits "Confident Troops", "Very Confident Troops", etc.

[SwordsMaster]

what has happened is that my generals get recruited when they are 16-17 and they are already "man grown"....


Another question: is it possibleto get the "vanquisher of the Getai"/or Germanicus or something trait at all? Cause I've been warring with the Getai for some 7 years with the same general and didn't get anything while I only won 1 battle against Carthage (ok, 2 battles and Alalia ) and got the Vanquisher of Carthaginians trait....

Are some factions more discriminated than others in terms of Triumphs?

[Malrubius]

what has happened is that my generals get recruited when they are 16-17 and they are already "man grown"....


Another question: is it possibleto get the "vanquisher of the Getai"/or Germanicus or something trait at all? Cause I've been warring with the Getai for some 7 years with the same general and didn't get anything while I only won 1 battle against Carthage (ok, 2 battles and Alalia ) and got the Vanquisher of Carthaginians trait....

Are some factions more discriminated than others in terms of Triumphs?

I can't detect the age of suitors and adoptees, so I just choose an adult age. Born generals are 16 when they become generals, so it's more accurate for them. Obviously, a man who's 16 and able to integrate himself into the upper echelons of society or who is commanding general on a battlefield is more mature than your typical American teenager.

I didn't do a Dacian triumph. Germanicus should be possible though. Conquering Alalia would be enough to get you started towards the "Africanus" title. Conquering Swebolandum is a bit harder, though...

[Jebus]

Oh, and there's a slight problem with the 'Vanquisher of...' trait too. One of my current generals got the 'Vanquisher of the Carthagineans' trait from capturing a rebel Carthage, and yet another one got the 'Vanquisher of the Macedonians' trait from conquering Chalchis (sp?) from the Epirotes. Somehow, that doesn't seem right.

[Malrubius]

Likes Easy Battles

Q. What's the story about this "Likes Easy Battles" trait? My generals are always getting it! It seems to be bugged!

A. If RTW thinks the odds are heavily in his favor, he gets a hidden trait denoting that his battle difficulty was low. We use that hidden trait, along with another hidden trait denoting degree of success, to calculate a number of BattlePoints. The more BattlePoints, the greater the chance of getting a command star. The traits you see (Likes Easy Battles, Crushes his Enemies, etc) are just visible versions of these traits, acquired over time. The way I adjust them over time may not be accurate or may be bugged. Also, due to a bug in 1.2, there's a problem with a general fighting more than 1 battle a season.

If you want to help me figure out if there's a bug with this trait, start keeping detailed records like so:

Example:

271, Spring - Attacker - 1:1 Odds - Heroic Victory - Even Odds - Crushes His Enemies
271, Autumn - Attacker - 3:2 Odds - Narrow Defeat - Likes Easy Battles - Barely Victorious

This lists the year, season, whether you were attacker or defender, the battle odds on the scroll before the battle.

Hover your mouse on the bar between the two generals--In this picture, the odds are 3:1



Then tell me the outcome (heroic victory, close victory, etc)
Then tell me what traits your general had after the battle (Likes Easy Battles, Normally Victorious, etc) and if he got a command star from tactics or leadership or something else.

This would be a tremendous help in testing. As you can imagine, I haven't fought a lot of battles out over the course of a campaign myself, in testing.

Please format it like the example above for easy analysis, and post your results in this thread

Thanks!

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Re: Bribing cities

Just wanted to make sure you saw this suggestion:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...2&postcount=40

Can we do temporary boosts for any general or diplomat in a city with a type1 govt? Even a type2 may get a smaller boost. We could go so far as to give a small penalty to type4 generals/diplomats. Or at least make sure we don't give them influence boosts (to type4 client rulers).

[Malrubius]

Re: Bribing cities

Just wanted to make sure you saw this suggestion:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...2&postcount=40

Can we do temporary boosts for any general or diplomat in a city with a type1 govt? Even a type2 may get a smaller boost. We could go so far as to give a small penalty to type4 generals/diplomats. Or at least make sure we don't give them influence boosts (to type4 client rulers).

Yeah, Mike and I discussed this yesterday. I believe it's in my current files, so might make the patch.




Fertility

Q.

I am well...ermm...having problems having babies playing as the romans. I know, I know...I gave all of my generals the birds and the bees lecture. I even went so far as to have them stay in town a bit longer...maybe to blow wind over the low "love embers" in hope of starting a blaze.

I have built nice governmental buildings for some potential "alone time".

Alas...no babies and therefore no true Romans!

I am in year 250 and the only new officials I get are adoptions and man of the hours'....which are most times not as good as a good baby which comes of age.

Anyone else having this problem?

P.S. When I played Pontus (until the 243 crash), my generals had babies like rabbits.

A. I'm suprised to see it working so well! In testing, Romans could always squeak out a baby or two.

We actually have 3 categories at this time:

- No babies: Rome, Koinon Hellenon, Qarthadast, Aedui, Arverni

- Some babies: Sweboz, Iberia, Casse

- Normal fertility: Dacia, Makedonia, Epeiros, Ptolemaioi, Pontus, Steppe culture (Yuezhi, Pahlava, Sauromatae), Eastern Greeks (Baktria, Arche Seleukeia, Hayasdan)





P.S. I love this humourous question, that's why I quoted it!

[Malrubius]

Oh, and there's a slight problem with the 'Vanquisher of...' trait too. One of my current generals got the 'Vanquisher of the Carthagineans' trait from capturing a rebel Carthage, and yet another one got the 'Vanquisher of the Macedonians' trait from conquering Chalchis (sp?) from the Epirotes. Somehow, that doesn't seem right.

I thought I replied to this one. Hmm.

Anyway, I think I might be able to clear this up. (I was originally giving "triumph points" for different settlements, but I think I know how to prevent this from happening).

[Magnificant me]

so why do the romans not get to have babies? that seems to be a little wrong or is there some thing that you know that i don't?

[jebes]

It is not that they don't have kids, it is that their kids don't automatically become powerful and inherit the power of their parents.

[Malrubius]

Right. Republican Rome wasn't ruled by a dynasty. The best men were supposed to rise to the top, perhaps helped by their ancestry, but not solely because of it. Contrast this with the Ptolemaic dynasty.

Therefore, we're not saying they don't have children, but we are using RTW's adoption system to simulate these men being picked for their merit.

[Jebus]

Right. Republican Rome wasn't ruled by a dynasty. The best men were supposed to rise to the top, perhaps helped by their ancestry, but not soley because of it. Contrast this with the Ptolemaic dynasty.

Therefore, we're not saying they don't have children, but we are using RTW's adoption system to simulate these men being picked for their merit.

You might be overestimating the level of meritocracy the Romans had... Plebeians without rich parents had an almost impossible time getting anywhere in Roman politics, while family of rich and powerful patricians had it way easier to at least get into the Senate - no matter how dumb they were. Cicero being able to pull off what he did in Roman politics (playing the Senate like a bunch of puppets, mostly) seems to be a good example of that. Therefore, 'the Romans squeezing out a baby or two' still seems fairly realistic to me.

*EDIT* Also, since adoption candidates in the game are usually pretty crappy (for Rome at least), any meritocracy isn't really reflected in that system.

[SwordsMaster]

What he means is, the "plebeius" trait comes up way too often in adoptees. Even if elected by their merits they would still be mostly patricians. The composition of the Senate: 300 ish patricians +2 plebs tribuni is fairly illuminating.

[Malrubius]

You might be overestimating the level of meritocracy the Romans had... Plebeians without rich parents had an almost impossible time getting anywhere in Roman politics, while family of rich and powerful patricians had it way easier to at least get into the Senate - no matter how dumb they were. Cicero being able to pull off what he did in Roman politics (playing the Senate like a bunch of puppets, mostly) seems to be a good example of that. Therefore, 'the Romans squeezing out a baby or two' still seems fairly realistic to me.

*EDIT* Also, since adoption candidates in the game are usually pretty crappy (for Rome at least), any meritocracy isn't really reflected in that system.

We're not depicting the entire Senate, just the main powers of each faction, as family members. Sure, some of them aren't too great, but that's compared to other family members.

The Plebeian disadvantage is reflected in their -3 Influence penalty (it's very difficult for them to gain office or be appointed faction heir as a result).

A baby or two here or there isn't a problem for me, either, the next patch will actually make babies more common among the Patricians at first, and fix another issue with suitors that was preventing Pats from marrying your daughters.

What he means is, the "plebeius" trait comes up way too often in adoptees. Even if elected by their merits they would still be mostly patricians. The composition of the Senate: 300 ish patricians +2 plebs tribuni is fairly illuminating.

At this time, there were more than just plebeian tribunes representing plebeians in the Senate. The Aedile, Consul and Censor positions were split between plebs and patricians.

[jerby]

Malrubius. could you be doing somethign with temperament?
Famboyant/calm/push-over to influence their commandstars when attacking?

[paullus]

Is there any way to influence what sort of wife your characters get, or whether they get married at all? Not getting married, or getting a bad wife, can really screw up a character for you, not to mention the worth of that character's progeny, and I don't know of any way to help that. Is there something I don't know, or, if it really is chance, could it be changed so that being in a nice town could help out or something?

[O'ETAIPOS]

My generals seem to lose abilieties during reloading. I had a general wih 2 command stars (1 from the start and other just gained by talented leader or sth similar). game was saved and after loading he was 1 star again (the trait was still in place). Many others seem to loose management also.

[Malrubius]

Malrubius. could you be doing somethign with temperament?
Famboyant/calm/push-over to influence their commandstars when attacking?

Hmm, there are a lot of triggers where Temperament is important, it's one of the main traits in the EB system, and affects the outcome of a hundred triggers or more. The humours BloodHumour and BlackBileHumour are almost directly tied to temperament, and they influence troopmorale (which is more important than Command stars, really) positively and negatively. Besides that, it affects how a general handles many other situations, like being besieged, being a member of a bankrupt or nearly bankrupt faction, or being targeted for assassination. It influences their outlook on foreigners and security. Of course, we can do more...

Is there any way to influence what sort of wife your characters get, or whether they get married at all? Not getting married, or getting a bad wife, can really screw up a character for you, not to mention the worth of that character's progeny, and I don't know of any way to help that. Is there something I don't know, or, if it really is chance, could it be changed so that being in a nice town could help out or something?

I have read that they're more likely to get married in town, but I don't know. I've also heard more influential or handsome generals get married easier than ugly ones, but again, I don't know.

I've done some more tweaks, based on your suggestion, to have handsome, wealthy, or influential generals have a shot at getting more healthy wives. Also, the settlement buildings might have an effect (sewers and baths are good! ). I'm in the middle of reworking the wifely traits a bit, a consolidation so you don't have 4-5 traits describing the wife, just 1. Don't know if it will make the first patch, though.

Any other ideas?

My generals seem to lose abilieties during reloading. I had a general wih 2 command stars (1 from the start and other just gained by talented leader or sth similar). game was saved and after loading he was 1 star again (the trait was still in place). Many others seem to loose management also.

Hmm, weird. That's not something I'm doing. I wonder if your saves are corrupted? Did you reload after a CTD? Also, playing one game, and reloading while still playing the game might do some weird things with scripts, but I don't know of anything there that would change the effects of traits. Especially if you still have all the same traits, and didn't lose any!