EB Governments

[Teleklos Archelaou]

There are a number of questions that will probably pop up about the governments in the open beta. But there are also some things I'd like to keep in a post here to keep folks informed before they might have questions.

First I'll post the bit from the gameplay guide (sorry Krusader , but since I wrote this part I'll steal it back and post it here too), especially since that post is locked. I'll place (in post 2) some reference maps as we finalize them for the places where "homeland" and then the second type (varies) can be placed (these two types require 'precursor' or 'resource' buildings before they can be built in a province). Feel free to discuss or ask questions about them.

Excerpted from the gameplay guide:

Government buildings are different from core buildings. The core buildings do often represent the residence of the chief magistrate or king, and change as the city size increases (this is hardcoded), but core buildings will not be able to be constructed unless a government type is chosen for each new province you conquer. The types of governments available to you will vary depending upon the faction you will control. There are generally four types: a “homeland” type, a “colonizing” type, a “subject state” type, and an “allied state” type. Again, they vary greatly depending upon the factions, and there are some exceptions to this general pattern, but these are rough guidelines to help you understand the system.

Let’s take the Makedonian government types as an example for which we can provide more details: when you begin the game, the provinces Makedonia controls will already have governments put into place for you. These types of governments are based upon the types found there in 272 B.C. Makedonia itself would have a “homeland” type (called a Patris Makedonike or “Makedonian Homeland”). Thessalia would have a “colonizing” type (called a Satrapeia Makedonike or “Makedonian Satrapy”). The Peleponnesos would have a “subject state” type (called a Nomos Symmachos Emphrouros or “Garrisoned Allied State”), as would Euboia. And finally the island of Lesbos would have an “allied state” type (called a Nomos Symmachos Autonomos or “Allied Autonomous Territory”).

These different government types give different bonuses and allow for the recruitment of different types of troops. They also allow or restrict different types of buildings for the province, but remember that they are necessary to recruit soldiers and advance city levels, so you cannot get along in the game without them. Back to our Makedonian example though... In a province with a Makedonian Homeland government, you can recruit the absolute best troops the Makedones can field. You can also construct the highest levels of buildings that exist in the Makedonian construction tree. You will probably have slower growth and maybe some trade penalties (laissez faire economics this is not), but the province would be more loyal and lawful and with your best troops trained there you would benefit greatly. These homeland governments can only be constructed in places where their actual homelands were, so you could not build one in Egypt, for example, for the Makedones. The drawback is that they are very expensive to build, and take a long time to construct, since the most loyal and most thorough expansion of your faction into a new province will take the most effort and time to ensure it succeeds. With this type of expansion, it is also logical that very few units made up mostly of “foreigners” would be available for you to recruit in these areas, but it is possible that a few very simple troop types could be gathered together from the small numbers of natives you have allowed to remain in the province.

If you have conquered a more distant province, you could create the “second best” type, your “colonizing” type government. This is very much like the homeland type, but some of the absolute highest level buildings and troops cannot be built here. It takes a while to build and is still expensive, but it is not so much or so slow to construct as the homeland type. It is still your best choice once you move beyond your homelands, or even in some of your homeland areas if you have plenty of homeland types already. You will find a few local units (not normally of your faction’s style) available to you in these provinces, especially in the lower levels of the MIC’s.

The “subject state” type will still allow you to create some of your good faction troops but you are allowing many of the natives of the province to continue their way of life alongside the new inhabitants of your faction. Your highest level troops are not able to be trained here, and your best faction buildings are not able to be constructed here, but there are plenty of other benefits to be gained. This type of government is moderately cheap and fast to create. Whether you are installing a “puppet” tyrant to govern locally for you or whether you are allowing a local tribe to govern alongside some of your strongmen, the locals are able to create some moderately good military units themselves in these places (provided that such units can be created here by the locals). Trade is not so much interrupted by the uprooting of massive numbers of inhabitants, and you might find some other bonuses such as an increase in the happiness of the local inhabitants. But it all depends upon the faction’s particulars (as the Makedonians have a stronger garrison in this type, they have better law bonuses, but worse happiness penalties). Since your highest level structures are not able to be built here, it is advisable that before you place this type of government you note whether or not this is an already advanced province. If it is a very simple one, you might not be able to gain quite as much in the end as you would like.

The “allied state” type is not recommended for smaller provinces for the same reasons. This is an ideal type to institute when you have conquered a large city with numerous good structures and a large population. You can still build many structures, but your best “cultural exports” are not available. This province is now under your control, but there is minimal change instituted immediately. Trade continues unabated (and trade bonuses are granted), there is no large transfer of population (and bonuses to population growth are possible), and the people are happy (even if they are not as lawful or loyal to you). The government needs little money and can quickly be put into place in this type also. Only your simplest troops can be trained here, but if the region has any good or elite troops that your faction could recruit, they would definitely be available in this type of province (they would not be available in this province if you had instituted a “homeland” or “colonizing” type). The local troops trained here might also gain experience bonuses as you are not disbanding their familiar training centers and techniques.

An allied or subject state type government may be destroyed and a colonizing type instituted at a later date if you wish, but the same expenses (in constructing buildings more suitable to your faction’s peoples) and delays (in introducing colonists and changes in laws and such) you would have incurred earlier would still be expected if you initiated the changes later.

For much more information, read the descriptions of the possible government types for your faction. Be aware that the AI is not restricted by time or expenses in building their government structures. The best type available for each faction in each province will be automatically placed for the AI factions upon conquering the province. When you conquer a province, you may destroy the old AI factions’ government structures, and when you look at the types of governments available to you in that province you will see if all types are available or if that region is one where certain types are not possible.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Type1 and Type2 governments
possible to be built within the following zones (for each faction):

(Note that these are not all currently in the open beta but these are what we are heading towards.)

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Aedui


Type1
Aedui King's Tribe\n\nThose tribes under the direct rule of the king, or his sub-kings, are considered the king's tribe or clan, if composed of many tribes. These would be most loyal to the king, and his direct subjects; these tribes probably consider themselves subsets of a single, greater clan, and feel personal relations, dedication, and maybe even love toward their ruler.

Type2
Teacher's Kin - Aedui Magisterial Administration\n\nSome tribes, though rare, are led by a clerical administrator; clerical does not necessarily mean a plainly religious leader, however. To Celts, many things fall into the auspice of the 'clerical' realm; since law and teaching are sacred, they would be considered 'clerical', but not priests. These leaders are beholden to the king, offering the full strength of their armies to him, but offer little money or tribute, due to their personal use of both trade income, and as donations to their temples, schools, or courts. This means income can be scant, but religious leaders are adored in Celtic society, and are often inspiring to the people; living under one usually means very great protection, as well as the constant belief that the gods' support this tribe especially.

Status: Final (ok'd by Psycho)

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Arche Seleukeia


Type1 (light gray)
Seleukid Military Settler Colony\n\nAcross the East, there are many large, productive, and thoroughly Hellenized provinces that make up the heart of the Arche Seleukeia. From these provinces, which are governed as satrapies, but often populated with military settler colonies, she can draw her best soldiers and there are few restrictions on the expansion of a common culture. There are similar provinces in the heart of other Diadochoi lands that might, with time and expense, be transformed into like homes for our people. Once the government is well established in these lands, one can expect more loyal citizens (though it may take a while to populate it with our colonists) and soldiers who fight with more morale. Trade will suffer by removing many previous local inhabitants or sending them to less fertile regions, but this is the type of government we expect to be most efficient in our lands, O Great King.


Type2 (dark gray)
Seleukid Satrapy\n\nThe basic form of Seleukid government across their empire is a Satrapeia. It provides training for most Seleukid troop types and most advances in buildings as well. It is not a quick form of government to establish in new provinces, and requires some new inhabitants be brought in while some others are driven out, but it is a sound choice of government where it is available. The citizens are loyal and more effective regional land exploitation is instituted. It is possible some local troops may be trained here, but so many changes have taken place by the time they are able to be recruited that the only ones different from our own troops will be relatively simple.


Status: Final (ok'd by TA, Qwerty, VC)

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Arverni


Type1
Arverni King's Tribe\n\nThose tribes under the direct rule of the king, or his sub-kings, are considered the king's tribe or clan, if composed of many tribes. These would be most loyal to the king, and his direct subjects; these tribes probably consider themselves subsets of a single, greater clan, and feel personal relations, dedication, and maybe even love toward their ruler.

Type2
Arverni Aristocratic Government\n\nA Gallic king may sometimes wish to ensure the installation of his relatives, allowing himself to introduce a hegemony by way of installing these aristocrats who he has close relations to. They are stilled allowed a fair degree of autonomy in the same manner of an ally, but their blood relations ensure substantially more loyalty; fewer Celts are willing to betray their own family than are willing to betray a random ally.

Status: Final (ok'd by Psycho)

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Baktria


Type1 (blue)
Baktrian Homeland\n\nWhere this government is available, in the regions around Baktria, it is the most efficient and productive type of government, though it is somewhat slow and not as conducive to trade as some other types. The Baktrian subjects who serve in the military do so for a number of reasons, but those from the heartlands of the nascent empire, are certainly more loyal than those from its peripheries and in battle their willingness to fight is more evident. In these core provinces, the full benefits of Baktrian and Hellenic culture and technology, as well as those from Iranian and even possibly Indian thought and religion, are able to be enjoyed by the populace.

Type2 (light blue)
Baktrian Satrapy\n\nA close approximation to the type of Baktrian homeland government, but which is available in outside regions, is the Baktrian Satrapy. With a core of Hellenic Baktrian citizens and those Iranian citizens whose power is increasing every day, these satrapies form the most common type of government in Baktrian expansion throughout the east, and are modelled upon Seleukid satrapies and their efficient methods. Most Baktrian structures are able to be constructed, and most core Baktrian troops can be recruited here, but the most elite ones must come from Baktria itself. There is a good morale boost for these troops as well, but along with a limited citizenship structure, comes a slow population growth, just like in the homelands. Still it is the most beneficial government choice for the long run in external provinces.

Status: Final (ok'd by TA, Qwerty, VC)

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Casse


Type1
Casse King's Tribe\n\nThose tribes under the direct rule of the king, or his sub-kings, are considered the king's tribe or clan, if composed of many tribes. These would be most loyal to the king, and his direct subjects; these tribes probably consider themselves subsets of a single, greater clan, and feel personal relations, dedication, and maybe even love toward their ruler.

Type2
Judge's Kin - Casse Clerical Administration\n\nSome tribes, though rare, are led by a clerical administrator; clerical does not necessarily mean a plainly religious leader, however. To Celts, many things fall into the auspice of the 'clerical' realm; since law and teaching are sacred, they would be considered 'clerical', but not priests. These leaders are beholden to the king, offering the full strength of their armies to him, but offer little money or tribute, due to their personal use of both trade income, and as donations to their temples, schools, or courts. This means income can be scant, but religious leaders are adored in Celtic society, and are often inspiring to the people; living under one usually means very great protection, as well as the constant belief that the gods' support this tribe especially.

Status: Final (ok'd by Ranika, Qwerty)

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Epeiros


Type1
Epeirote Homeland\n\nRestricted to a relatively small area, these provinces remained the chief strength and the source of the most elite soldiers for the Epeirote army. The homelands of the Epeirotes were well-wooded and mountainous, the home of hardy soldiers and farmers of hillsides. Harsh conditions such as these made for a good source of men who might have spent their lives enduring the cold mountain winters and fighting against the Illyrians and Makedonians from their east. They are fiercely loyal to Epeiros and consider Dodona as the most important religious shrine in their lands, and they are also given a large say in choosing the path the government takes. Men who are free to vote their opinions in a well-constructed meeting hall or bouleterion and who are thus trained and armed are formidable foes and not likely to flee the field of battle in harsh conditions either.

Type2
Epeirote Military Controlled Territory\n\nEpeirote expansion was not as well prepared to handle long term rule in their new possessions as some Hellenic peoples were. The most common method was to garrison troops in a local citadel or stronghold and place a local ruler or oligarchs in control of the day-to-day functions of the cities. This did not make for happy citizens in many locations, but it did bring in more money to the coffers at Ambrakia and continual training and minor military engagements in these areas, to put down minor rebellions, did ensure that the soldiers who served there had more experience readying themselves for more major engagements. It was not as easy to bring in new troops except under duress in these regions though, so a slower growth process is to be expected.

Status: Final (ok'd by TA, Qwerty, VC)

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Getai


Type1 (orange)
Getic Tribe\n\nDue to the imposibility of depicting the Getian tribal society accurately, the government covers technically the Getian inhabited territories. However, one should not consider this to be a mere compromise: Getian royalty behaved much more despotic than its Gallic or Germanic counterparts; influeces of the southern Thracians and of the East made sure of that. There existed, of course, tribes more loyal than others, but there are indications that, once in power, Getian basileos would occupy the main dava with powerfull and loyal garrisons, along with which they would "export" faithfull communities, placing them around these strategic points. Thus it became apparent a tendency to disolve these "own tribes" into one society - nevertheless, we can't consider it to be a consistent policy.

Type2 (brown)
Getic Allied Tribe\n\nRefering mostly to Thracian tribes. The differencies between Getai and southern Thracians were not insurmontable, but significant enough to allow a feeling of separate identities. The basileos' garrisons in these regions would be seen as Getai, and not merely royal ones. However, the occupied tribes would also have had a greater degree of autonomy in their economical and military relations - the last aspect refers to the long thracian tradition of serving as mercenaries.

Status: Final

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Hayasdan


Type1 (medium blue)
Haikakan Royal Province\n\nThe homelands of Hayasdan are directly ruled by the king himself and his most immediate subordinates. These lands are under the strict control of the king and are the backbone of his armies. His best soldiers are able to be recruited here and the most complex and traditionally Haikakan structures are able to be built in these provinces as well. When conquering new provinces, it is not a quick or inexpensive process to firmly establish royal rule there, but it is without question the best type of government that the Hayasdan can implement in provinces where it is an option.\n\nThe people of the province are the most loyal in the kingdom though not allowing other peoples as much access and room to live here does slow rates of expansion, and by enforcing strict rule and control there may be some slight economic drawbacks. In addition to having the loyalty of the populace, the troops trained here also are more eager to fight for and defend their homeland and king.

Type2 - (light blue)
Haikakan Principality\n\nThe Ishxanutyun is a province that is ruled over by an Ishkhan (prince). Armenian princely houses, or clans, were headed by either a prince or a “lord of the clan” (“house lord”), who was known as a Tanater. The Ishkhan or Tanater would be able to raise his own troops from his domain, and would protect the Ishxanutyun and also serve the king. While they are not directly ruled by the king, and are not usually located in the center of the king’s domains (or kingdom), still this province will be made thoroughly Armenian once the time and effort have been invested in establishing the rule of the Ishkhan.\n\nThis province will be able to construct most of the best Haikakan units and buildings, though it may be located on or near the borders of what is traditionally thought of as Hayasdan. The Ishkhan himself would live in a hereditary estate known as a Hayreniq, and would have a residence caste, or Dastakert.

Status: Final (ok'd by artavazd, TA, Qwerty)

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Iberia


Type1

Type2

Status: Final (ok'd by Sarcasm, Qwerty, Ranika)

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Karthadastim


Type1
Phoenician Homeland Province\n\nA Phoenician province is the basic building block of Carthaginian power. These encompass cities like Carthage itself, along with Hadramout and Lepki. The Home Provinces combine a rich Phoenician heritage and encompass the major trading and agricultural centers of the Carthaginian Empire, with most of the soldiers formed from Phoenician citizens as well. These provinces are dominated by agriculture and cottage industry, producing the wealth of grain and manufactured goods that make Carthage a rich power. Gazing into the verdant fields surrounding Carthage makes one realize her power.\n\nCarthage is ruled by a Shophet, the Hundred, and the Senate, in descending order of importance. The Shophet is elected and confirmed by the people and the Hundred respectively. The power of the Shophetim is based here, and any aspiring Shophet of Carthage would do well to remember this.

Type2
Phoenician Colony\n\nA colony of Phoenicians under Carthaginian control is known as a Mosaba Ponnit. It has rich agricultural potential, but is not so rich as the home provinces. The colonies are controlled by military governors, who can often amass as much power as the Shophet at home! Typical colonies encompass a city where Carthaginians, Liby-Phoenicians, and Libyans have come to set up industries and make the agricultural potential of a particular piece of land really shine. While not as heavily geared toward trading as the Emporia, the Colony has the base where goods are manufactured and processed.

Status: Final (ok'd by VC, Qwerty)

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Koinon Hellenon


Type1 (orange)
Spartan Agoge Kleruchy\n\nInstituting a kleruchy modelled upon the traditional Spartan agoge is no trivial matter. While military benefits are tempting, it takes other provinces to keep such a system financed, now that the subjugation of helots has become a discontinued practice. Serious trade penalties and the inability to construct many buildings make these places unattractive for foreign merchants and even the coining of money is frowned upon. The types of soldiers that can be trained here is also restricted, but after a long and expensive process, the soldiers become much better than those found elsewhere. It might be worth your while to occasionally attempt such an experiement in a province. But be warned that any empire that relies too heavily upon these provinces will be very difficult to maintain in the long run. The province will need a city-center, unlike the classical Spartan state, as it is part of a growing empire of the Hellenes and not an idividual entity. The Syssitia, or large dining-halls, are the most easily recognized structures that will relate directly to government in these provinces. Most of the rest of the training and daily life is done out of doors.

Type2 (brown)
Hellenic Kleruchy\n\nAfter selling into slavery the prior inhabitants of a newly conquered province (or possibly even after killing all the adult males), Hellenic klerouchies (colonies) were usually created by sending settlers from the metropolis (mother-city), possibly alongside other allied settlers. The new poleis were not entirely independent, but still maintained citizenship with the metropolis. The process was a slow one and was most commonly found in already Hellenic lands, but kleruchies could be established in more remote locales, provided that there were good ties and lines of communication with the metropolis. Settlers received an allotment of land (a kleros) and would eventually be able to increase the ranks of the citizen armies with the participation of their own and future generations. The benefits of such a process of expansion include higher loyalty and the expectation that the new city might have all the culture, technology, and benefits of the metropolis. With only citizen settlers participating though, the growth rate was very slow after the initial settlement. Keeping the military well-reinforced and ready to be used by the vote of the local strategos or vote of the settlers at the bouleterion is very important to the safety of the colony and its success.

Status: Final (ok'd by TA, Qwerty)

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Makedonia


Type1

Type2

Status: WIP

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Pahlava


Type1
Parthian Royal Clan Satrapy\n\nThis represents the royal domain. Vast estates which the Parthian king held under personal lordship and from which he extracted revenues. Without these estatesit is unlikely that he would hold power for long. The Parthians were not overly concerned with exactly who held power as long as he held the Divine Glory. kinship lies at the root of his royal power and the host he could trust and depend on would have been chiefly composed of the families and kindred of the royal clan. For this reason he was chiefly concerned with increasing the royal domain and extend his personal authority.\n\nThe feudal and decentralized structure of the Parthian kingdom explains why, though founded by a militant and capable people it never really took strong offensive action against its enemies. It was easy for a Parthian king to summon to his banner a great host, but it was impossible to hold such an army together in the field for any meaningful length of time. To maintain such an army would require a bureaucratic infrastructure, a money economy and a well maintained transportation system. Also the regional power holders would need to be subjegated to the central government and this simply wasn't possible on the nomadic eastern frontier. Such a centralization of power was not in the interests of the powerful and the local clan aristocracy was powerful enough to maintain their social and political position against royal encroachments.\n\nFeudalism emerged in Parthia for much the same reasons as it did elsewhere. A landed equestrian system was needed for military purposes. The aristocratic military elite were the effective rulers of Parthia and these warriors were invariably horsemen. This class of warriors required a substantial landed estate to maintain cavalry away from the steppe, particularily the heavily armoured cataphracts Parthia was so renowned for.

Type2
Parthian Great Clan March\n\nThe Parthians established border marches on the eastern frontiers to defend against the incursions of nomads and it is from these that the great clan marches descend. The lords of these marches enjoy considerable power and autonomy to the point that some of them are almost an independent feudal kingdom, controlled by the despotic satrap from his capital. The heads of the great Parthian feudal families, such as the Suren, and Karen clan, were themselves, by far the largest property holders in the satrap. The best example of these great lords is Eranshahr-Spahbed Suren-Pahlav who led the forces of his clan against the Romans at the battle of Carrhae. There he destroyed the Romans and seven of their legions, their legions standards taken as trophies of war.\n\nLocal magnates played an important role in the kingdom, and the king was wise to respect their privileges. Several of the eminent noble clanss had a vote in the Royal council, and the powerful Suren clan had the right to crown the Parthian king. Every Parthian aristocrat was allowed and expected to field armed retainers of his own. When the throne was occupied by a weakling, the naturally contentious Parthian nobility would vie for power between themselves and for the great clans there was the hope of siezing the throne itself.\n\nThe scattered and constantly shifting camps of the steppe nomads do not make for highly centralized governments. They are held together by ties of blood and loyalty to their chieftains. He is the central autocratic leader of the tribe and is granted great, but poorly defined powers of rulership. Compromise, persuasion, and an understanding of what the tribe wants are needed for him to effectively rule. An usurper cannot sieze the reins of government since there are none. All of this is informal and largely based on the respect and the tribesmen sense and respond to strong leadership. Any imbalance in power between tribes will result in the common tribesmen seeking to place themselves under the authority of the more capable leader. The direct alliances made with the great kings satrap made those tribes more prominent than their rivals. The influence of a satrap is often immense since he places members of his own clan into positions of responsibility and cultivates allies and clients within his satrapy.\n\nThe great clans are satraps with large nomadic confederacies whose loyalty is assured by gifts and favours from the clan lords. It is essentially impossible for the noble rulers to force direct control over the clans. The clan lords are however, capable of acting as sponsors to the great king, and providing trade, services and pastures. Control of the trade routes is essential and a string of fortified trade stations, called Karwansarai's each with a small garrison, allow this to continue. Yet, even so the tribal allegiance is never secure and power must be present as a constant to force submission if necessary. The real allegiance of the majority of the tribesmen is to their extended families, clans, and tribes. These free tribesmen constitute a mobile ready made force of cavalry able to be utilized by strong leaders. The nomadic groups in turn are dependent on the kingdom and perform military service when called upon to do so.

Status: Final (ok'd by SteppeMerc, Qwerty, VC, TA)

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Pontos


Type1
Royal Pontic Territory\n\nThe homelands of Pontos are themselves a conglomeration of different peoples, who over centuries of living and trading with each other have developed a rather harmonious relationship, though only after much time and effort has been invested in extending the benefits of Persian rule to the Hellenic subjects in these homelands as well as bringing the advances of Hellenic culture found in their midst to the rest of the subjects more accustomed to the Iranian culture of the prior kings. The considerable natural resources of these lands, both material and human ones, provide great strength for a king who would choose to make full use of the best elements of each of the contributing cultures. Their growth might be slow, but their loyalty is not suspect and their morale on the field of battle is great. Long-term economic benefits will result eventually, and the best and most varied military training of Pontic units are available here.

Type2
Pontic Persian Satrapy\n\nThe traditional form of government of Persian satrapies was well-remembered and revered by their descendants, among whose number is the Megas Basileus of Pontos. This type of government was well-suited for many new territorial acquisitions and provided a sound method of exporting the benefits and rule of the millieu that was Pontic culture. Most all cultural benefits and martial training present in Pontos is able to be replicated and developed in these Pontic satrapies, but it is not a fast process. These newly acquired regions, if they are to serve the king in the best way possible, must undergo many years of development and the peoples must be well instructed before the full mechanisms of the Pontic economy and government may be enjoyed here. The loyalty of these regions will not be in doubt after such a process, though it is a slow one, and the morale of troops trained here will be very good, given their upbringing in a satrapy such as this one.

Status: Final (ok'd by TA, Qwerty)

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Ptolemaioi


Type1
Hyparchy\n\nThe bountiful former lands of Megas Alexandros' Aigyptian Satrapies, acquired by his general Ptolemaios I after his death, form the Hyparchies of his successor's powerful dynastic kingdom. Many cities of these places were founded by the great conqueror himself, and their culture and design are a tribute to him and the Hellenic customs he sincerely espoused; marrying many elements of the ancient Hellenic Polis and the new administrative practices of the vast holdings of his former Somatophylax. For the Ptolemies, the hyparchies under their direct control are the political centers of their kingdom in Aigyptos; productive, loyal, and the most predominantly Hellenic of their holdings - often drawing on the historical polis of Hellas for their own designs. Here, elements of Hellenic culture and the strong Makedonian government are strongest, and they are frequently administered by their historical progenitors, though such men are occasionally supplanted in power or lower offices by competent or Hellenized natives, former Persian officials, and even the occasional resettled Jew. These places are the strongholds of the Hellenistic spirit of the Ptolemaic Kingdom, where acquiescence to native custom and tradition is far less pronounced then loyalty to the ruling dynasty. Wealthy and prosperous from large harvests, and blessed with fine political institutions - they are the bulwarks of Ptolemaic power.

Type2
Klerouchy\n\nWith his claim to the Neilos Delta and its supporting regions secure, Ptolemaios I engineered and implemented his famous system of military settlements. These settlements, called Klerouchies, are regions made up largely of land grants given to Makedonian soldiers, and mercenaries from across the Mediterranean, in exchange for their service to the Ptolemaic military. Outside of their Neilos Delta strongholds, they are the most well settled, productive, and loyal provinces of the Ptolemaic Kingdom, though their very nature divides them culturally. Though an Aigyptian Klerouchy is well populated by Hellenes, Makedonians, and barbarians of a similar culture, it is generally home to at least as many settled Galatians, Aigyptians, and even Libyans and Africans. Farther from Aigyptos, such places are administered the same, though their settled Hellenes share their homes with more receptive Asiatic soldiers and the fine cavalrymen of Media and the plains to it's East. Despite any shortcomings, a Ptolemaic Klerouchy can be counted on for a variety of superb military and economic provisions, with only small native resentment to mar it.

Status: Final (ok'd by VC, Qwerty)

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Romani


Type1
Italian Regional Government\n\nThe governance of Roman Italia in previous years has shown us that while it takes much time to fully acclamate the peoples of the peninusla to Roman rule, it is a process that can repay those efforts greatly. These regions, after a period of time when they might be indirectly governed by Roman magistrates such as a profectus or quaestor, will be fully integrated into the economic and military training systems of our state. A more equal partnership in a federation of Italian states can be granted to these newer regions, and while full rights of suffrage may not be extended to them for some time and while in fact the quotas of soldiers levied from them might be great, still the process of Romanization is a full and beneficial, if slow one.

Type2
Romanized Province\n\nIn provinces where an entirely new governmental system is necessary or where existing infrastructure is deemed too much unable to handle the future expectations of Roma for the region, it might be beneficial to initiate a full Provincia Romana. Provincial governors and more than likely numerous small coloniae are sent out from Italia and while their primary function is to defend the province from foreign enemies and domestic disturbance, they should be given enough time to fully construct a Roman provincial government and the other necessities of a fully funcationing Provincia. Expect somewhat slow growth from the population in these areas and some unhappiness from the forced acculturatization, although the men who are trained here are more trustworthy and loyal than in most newly conquered areas. Some economic growth will result from new and more efficient methods of taxation, but expect no great economic booms for quite a while.

Status: Final (ok'd by TA, cunctator, VC, Qwerty)

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Sauromatae

None needed (doesn't use regular governments)

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Sweboz


Type1 (red)
Realm of the Swêboz\n\nBlood relationships are very important in Germanic society and considering the might of the Thêngáz, the leadership of those tribes is not despotic but monarchistic and democratic in one. The Kuningaz do not posess absolute power; he still has to respect the will of his people. He is often advised by a council of wise men and they also had to respect the wishes of the Thengaz, some tribes even had a constitutional cooperation between the king and the Thengaz. Multiple tribes could form a coalition and create a new tribe, coalition tribes could become very powerful and often controlled large areas of land.\n\nThese tribes are the most loyal to a germanic Kuningaz, they feel of kinship and relationship, not only cultural but also as a confederation unlike many other germanic tribes.

Type2 (dark red)
Swêboz Allied Nation\n\nThe differencies between Germanics and Celts are not insurmontable, but significant enough to allow a feeling of separate identities. The chieftains of these regions are tied by treaties and royal hostages to the Swêboz - however, the occupied tribes would also have had a greater degree of autonomy in their economical and military relations.

Status: Final (ok'd by TA, Ranika, Qwerty)

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Yuezhi

None needed (doesn't use regular governments)

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[Dayve]

I've read all that... But one thing is puzzling me...

Playing as the Romans, when i take a city on the Italian Peninsula there are 4 types of government buildings available to me... Can't remember their names but they take 20, 14, 5 and 2 turns to build... The one that takes 20 turns is somewhat like Roman citizenship and the one that takes two turns is almost like a hastily installed government system... But to me the only one there is any point in building is the one that takes 20 turns... Could someone who understands it explain to me what the point in building any of the other three would actually be?

Thanks.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

The best is always the most expensive and slowest - but it is costly and time consuming to totally change a province.

Those best governments (type1's) are only available in a restricted area though. For the romans they are only available inside peninsular italy. once you leave you'll have to settle for type2 in most places. If you find a huge city that's well developed (and maybe also where a faction was as opposed to a rebel area), you could install a type4 quickly and reap some good benefits though.

There is a balance system here. The expensive and slow ones give better long term benefits, but the cheap and quick ones aren't as good way down the road (unless you don't care about them producing units or your best buildings). Bonuses also will eventually be more unique between factions (govt bonuses I mean), but also will reflect certain "generalities': namely that huge turmoil in changing cultures and populations with a type1 disrupts trade and slows population, but makes them more loyal and gives better morale. But on the other hand at the other extreme type4 has less interruption in trade and emmigration, so there are trade bonuses and population bonuses, along with happiness, but poor loyalty, and also maybe some xp bonus for continuing the type of fighting they are used to. There are exceptions to all of these, to fit the factions, but these are the broad outlines.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Posted this elsewhere and forgot to post on this forum thread:

To give an example with the maps and discussions that have been ongoing inside EB boards on where type1 and type2 governments can be placed, I'll put one up now. This is definitely a work in progress still.

Keep in mind also that some peoples had an easier time with expansion than others historically. This will be reflected to a degree in where you can place type1 and type2 governments. It won't cripple a faction's expansion, but some factions like Pontos surely won't be able to have their type1 homeland governments or even their type2 governments spread out across the whole map. They will have to rely on more loosely holding or even allying with provinces that we have no reason to suspect they would have been able to 'export' their 'culture' to.

We've been talking about the Getai locations, so I'll use that as an example:



The orange color shows the extent of possible placement of type1 governments. For the Getai, type1 is this:

Getike Phyle - Getic Tribe\n\nDue to the imposibility of depicting the Getian tribal society accurately, the government covers technically the Getian inhabited territories. However, one should not consider this to be a mere compromise: Getian royalty behaved much more despotic than its Gallic or Germanic counterparts; influeces of the southern Thracians and of the East made sure of that. There existed, of course, tribes more loyal than others, but there are indications that, once in power, Getian basileos would occupy the main dava with powerfull and loyal garrisons, along with which they would "export" faithfull communities, placing them around these strategic points. Thus it became apparent a tendency to disolve these "own tribes" into one society - nevertheless, we can't consider it to be a consistent policy.

These are the lands the Getai lived within. For type2, we have this description:

Phyle Symmiche - Getic Allied Tribe\n\nRefering mostly to Thracian tribes. The differencies between Getai and southern Thracians were not insurmontable, but significant enough to allow a feeling of separate identities. The basileos' garrisons in these regions would be seen as Getai, and not merely royal ones. However, the occupied tribes would also have had a greater degree of autonomy in their economical and military relations - the last aspect refers to the long thracian tradition of serving as mercenaries.

While this refers "mostly" to Thraikian tribes, it also can be applied to other nearby peoples who are somewhat similar, or maybe at least who the Getai have ties of trade or treaty. They are the darker brown provinces on the above map.

Outside of these areas, the Getai would not be expected to closely control other areas. Their type3 government is this:

Phyle Xenike Pelatike - Getic Foreign Client Tribe\n\nRefering to the directly-governed foreign populations. Conquered tribes or states placed under the authority of Getai loyal Tarabostes. Although their status grants them a relatively large independence on economical and military policies, the fact that their affairs are constantly brought in front of a foreign noble for the final decision causes resentments.

They do control them and can recruit middle-range units and buildings there, but not their best. Type4 is:

Nomos Symmachos Autonomos - Getic Allied Free Region\n\nRefering to autonomous foreign populations. Conquered tribes or states of different ethnicity placed under the authority of indigenous nobles trying to mantain the semblance of autonomy; however, their military obligations to the Getai would be strictly enforced. Their so-called autonomy would allow engagement into local conflicts or hiring as mercenaries, and an independent trading policy with tribes not engaged in conflicts with the Getai. With the tribute they have to pay for their priviledges being higher, this reflects negatively in their level of loyalty and attitude towards the central-government though, a consequence of their feeling of separate identity also.

Type3 and type4 are able to be built anywhere (even in the orange and brown provinces). So, the question would seem to be - do we allow for a larger range of provinces that a type2 government can be constructed in? To understand a little better, the Romans, who we know were incredibly effecient at exporting (as well as importing) their own culture to other places, would be able to build a type2 government all over the map - except for the steppes, desert regions, and possibly extremely northern forested areas.

So there's a bit of a rundown on some questions still facing us. Don't worry about how we can make the game do this for each faction (part of the mystery of scripts and precursor buildings! :woot: ), but just the effects that it would have on where these governments can be constructed.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Here is the Koinon Hellenon map for type1 and type2 placements.



This is one of our stranger ones. Type2 is still a very good government actually. It is the standard Greek kleruchy (colony), good for expansion into areas they do not control at the start of the game. Type1 is the spartan kleruchy - the only peoples that can have one of these established in their midst are greeks who either are dorian also or have much in common with the Lakedaimonians. You can build spartan agoge kleruchies in (Lakonia of course already has it), then in Krete, some areas of northern Greece, Kalabria, and the region around Byzantion. They can't be built in most greek locations, but having type2 still able to construct some of the best buildings makes up for this. Type1 here still has the best units, but even it is restricted in terms of buildings. We were able to keep the highest level of a few KH buildings *out* of the type1 provinces where appropriate.

This could have been really something amazing *if* we had unlimited building complexes. There would be separate ones for the KH so that the Spartan agoge could be really good for troops but very limited in terms of income from trade or certain buildings. But the complexes have to be shared by everyone, so we had to limit our ambitions here. But we still have an interesting way (we think) of portraying this faction.

We'll be happy to talk about the map and what provinces should accept type1 or type2. Egrisi was the last one we took off the type2 list and the last change made before posting. Enjoy!

[Conqueror]

A question: if the Type 3 & 4 governments give trade bonuses, is there any point in building a Type 2 in a province that you want primarily for taxation (and not as a place for military recruitment)? Does Type 2 allow you to build better markets or other buildings to match the trade bonus in the long run?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

A question: if the Type 3 & 4 governments give trade bonuses, is there any point in building a Type 2 in a province that you want primarily for taxation (and not as a place for military recruitment)? Does Type 2 allow you to build better markets or other buildings to match the trade bonus in the long run?

Yeah, type2 can build 4 levels of markets instead of 5. So you can have a lot of really good income in them. Plus you can get levels of sea trade, plus you can get a river trade boost if there is a big river there, plus you can get a silk road or amber route trade boost if those pass through there.

So you can get high taxation in a type2 province too. It's just that they take longer and cost more to start. I sorta judge my decision on whether to pick a type2/3/4 by how fast I'm moving (in expansion), what the other provinces around it have, and how developed the city was in the first place.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Someone on the other forum asked for Roman distribution, so here it is:

Remember that these are going to be the ones we use - but they do not match up exactly with what is in the game now (definitely not in some places - this has been a pretty recent set of decisions and the placement for the open beta was great for some factions but not so good for others).

The type1 for the romans will only be inside italy itself - and the govt is an administration of italian provinces. Here is the description:

Administratio Regionum Italicarum - Italian Regional Government\n\nThe governance of Roman Italia in previous years has shown us that while it takes much time to fully acclamate the peoples of the peninusla to Roman rule, it is a process that can repay those efforts greatly. These regions, after a period of time when they might be indirectly governed by Roman magistrates such as a profectus or quaestor, will be fully integrated into the economic and military training systems of our state. A more equal partnership in a federation of Italian states can be granted to these newer regions, and while full rights of suffrage may not be extended to them for some time and while in fact the quotas of soldiers levied from them might be great, still the process of Romanization is a full and beneficial, if slow one.

Their 'highly romanized province' govt will export most roman culture to most places across the map (with the exception of steppe/desert/highly distant and mountainous provinces). So they will have a good type2 almost all over - and that will hopefully mimic their ability to bring their culture/advances to the most distant regions (as long as the cost and time are spent to convert the place). Here is that one's description:

Provincia Romana - Romanized Province\n\nIn provinces where an entirely new governmental system is necessary or where existing infrastructure is deemed too much unable to handle the future expectations of Roma for the region, it might be beneficial to initiate a full Provincia Romana. Provincial governors and more than likely numerous small coloniae are sent out from Italia and while their primary function is to defend the province from foreign enemies and domestic disturbance, they should be given enough time to fully construct a Roman provincial government and the other necessities of a fully funcationing Provincia. Expect somewhat slow growth from the population in these areas and some unhappiness from the forced acculturatization, although the men who are trained here are more trustworthy and loyal than in most newly conquered areas. Some economic growth will result from new and more efficient methods of taxation, but expect no great economic booms for quite a while.

This was a recent map that showed type1 and type2 for romans:


But we have decided to include Galatia in the type2 category, and also Libye (the Ammonion). There has been some discussion about Sinai(Petra), but they may just have to get a type3.

[MeroFromVero]

Someone on the other forum asked for Roman distribution, so here it is:

Are you taking requests? May I request for Baktria to be next?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Are you taking requests? May I request for Baktria to be next?

Baktria:



Again I need to remind everyone that this is *not* the current situation as released with the OB. This will be what we are shooting for for the next patch or update.

Type1 is the Baktrian Homeland government and is the darker blue color. Type2 is a Baktrian Satrapy and is the pale blue color. Type2 is pretty much places that have a lot of Hellenic successor influence with a few others that Baktria had historical expansion into. Greseoralla was thrown in for its Hellenic influence.

Anyone have any questions about these?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Makedonia was asked for on the other board. Here it is (our latest version of it - but maybe not finished yet):



Keep in mind this is NOT what is in the OB, but it is what we are shooting for for our next submission.

Type1 is Makedonian Homelands, and is fairly restrictive. But type2 is pretty much all successor state hellenic provinces, plus nearby ones in the balkans provinces and Italy - places where the Maks would have still been able to have close control in a Makedonian Satrapy (which is what type2 is).

Type3 would be a garrisoned province - very strong military presence (unhappy people too), but never 'makedonized' nearly as well as the govt is so repressive. Perfect for places like korinth, for example.

[Spendios]

May I request Pontos ?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Someone asked for Karthage elsewhere, so here goes. Dunno if we will settle on this one, but here is Carthage's map:



Again, this is not what we have currently, but what we are aiming for.

type1:
Phoenician Homeland Province\n\nA Phoenician province is the basic building block of Carthaginian power. These encompass cities like Carthage itself, along with Hadramout and Lepki. The Home Provinces combine a rich Phoenician heritage and encompass the major trading and agricultural centers of the Carthaginian Empire, with most of the soldiers formed from Phoenician citizens as well. These provinces are dominated by agriculture and cottage industry, producing the wealth of grain and manufactured goods that make Carthage a rich power. Gazing into the verdant fields surrounding Carthage makes one realize her power.\n\nCarthage is ruled by a Shophet, the Hundred, and the Senate, in descending order of importance. The Shophet is elected and confirmed by the people and the Hundred respectively. The power of the Shophetim is based here, and any aspiring Shophet of Carthage would do well to remember this.

type2:
Phoenician Colony\n\nA colony of Phoenicians under Carthaginian control is known as a Mosaba Ponnit. It has rich agricultural potential, but is not so rich as the home provinces. The colonies are controlled by military governors, who can often amass as much power as the Shophet at home! Typical colonies encompass a city where Carthaginians, Liby-Phoenicians, and Libyans have come to set up industries and make the agricultural potential of a particular piece of land really shine. While not as heavily geared toward trading as the Emporia, the Colony has the base where goods are manufactured and processed.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

May I request Pontos ?

Here is Pontos, or at least what we have for them as a Work in progress:



Again, this is not what is currently in the open beta, but what we are trying to settle on for updates.

type1:
Royal Pontic Territory\n\nThe homelands of Pontos are themselves a conglomeration of different peoples, who over centuries of living and trading with each other have developed a rather harmonious relationship, though only after much time and effort has been invested in extending the benefits of Persian rule to the Hellenic subjects in these homelands as well as bringing the advances of Hellenic culture found in their midst to the rest of the subjects more accustomed to the Iranian culture of the prior kings. The considerable natural resources of these lands, both material and human ones, provide great strength for a king who would choose to make full use of the best elements of each of the contributing cultures. Their growth might be slow, but their loyalty is not suspect and their morale on the field of battle is great. Long-term economic benefits will result eventually, and the best and most varied military training of Pontic units are available here.

type2:
Pontic Persian Satrapy\n\nThe traditional form of government of Persian satrapies was well-remembered and revered by their descendants, among whose number is the Megas Basileus of Pontos. This type of government was well-suited for many new territorial acquisitions and provided a sound method of exporting the benefits and rule of the millieu that was Pontic culture. Most all cultural benefits and martial training present in Pontos is able to be replicated and developed in these Pontic satrapies, but it is not a fast process. These newly acquired regions, if they are to serve the king in the best way possible, must undergo many years of development and the peoples must be well instructed before the full mechanisms of the Pontic economy and government may be enjoyed here. The loyalty of these regions will not be in doubt after such a process, though it is a slow one, and the morale of troops trained here will be very good, given their upbringing in a satrapy such as this one.

Pontos' type3 is more suited for some Hellenic cities, so we don't have a need to extend type2 coverage to old or great hellas.

[Divinus Arma]

Why so much for Carthage?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You'll notice the spread is mostly on coastlines. They, after all, had a very good record of expanding into areas they traded with by water. It's a colony type, and we know they were not only capable of expanding but that they did it (not theoretical like we have to do with some factions). It doesn't go far into Europe, or even Africa, or Iran or anywhere in the north. But they could expand with it along most of the temperate coasts and a little inland in a number of places too.

[SwordsMaster]

Hmm.... I've been playing for a bit and apart from a few errors etc which I outlined in another thread, I have a few suggestions on govts, traits and such.

1. Carthaginian influence areas:

IMHO (always) homelands should be extended to Massylim, Balears and probably Carpetania as from what little I've read they had a very strong system of alliances in those areas.

2. Roman type1 govs should be allowed in Iberia except Cantabria, and Sicily. These were strongly under roman control and even a few Emperors were born in Spain...

3. When setting up a regime of type 3 and 4 (puppet state and allied state) governors should be spawned when the 'building' is constructed in that settlement with a special trait of the "local tyrant/monarch/governor" type that would make the guy useless in any other settlement but would give some small happiness and law bonuses or something similar.

Alternatively, the conquering general could get an ancillary saying "governor of such place" which would make it appear more realistic (of course this idea is not perfect and maybe the governors could appear only for people with senate offices or faction leaders or something like that). The point is, some, more influential figures would have a whole host of people they 'command'. The problem is, when that character dies, those ancillaries would have to be generated again for some other character that, say spends some turns in the settlement or otherwise the happiness could drop something dramatic, like 50%.


Just some thoughts.

Regards.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Thanks for the comments. I'll try to answer and respond to a few things:

1. We are still talking about the Carth type1 and 2 distribution internally. At least one key member of the discussion is still on holiday for a bit more so we won't finalize it yet, but VandalCarthage plays a big role in it too.

2. Roman type1 just can't be extended outside of peninsular italy I'm afraid. Since type2 is a good one and is (for all cultures) the best "faction culture/military exporter" to more distant lands, it is very appropriate for Iberia. The romans' type2 doesn't have any big drawbacks like a few factions might have for theirs, and it represents a highly romanized province. It will be one of the better type2's actually because the Romans were really good at exporting their system elsewhere. Don't think of it as a drawback that type1 won't be in Iberia - no one else has their type1 extended out of their 'homelands'. The only even possible exception is one province for the Carthies in the place they came from.

3. I hate to say anything else about number three, but since you mention it and are fairly detailed, here goes.... We have been preparing something very much like this. We couldn't get it into the OB, but I am quite giddy in anticipation of it. From what the traiters and scripters have said they can do for us on this, it has a lot of promise. But we are just looking at implementation for now on type4. We will talk more about this later, but you'll get nothing else out of us for now on the matter.

For number three you win the balloon for the day!

[SwordsMaster]

3. I hate to say anything else about number three, but since you mention it and are fairly detailed, here goes.... We have been preparing something very much like this. We couldn't get it into the OB, but I am quite giddy in anticipation of it. From what the traiters and scripters have said they can do for us on this, it has a lot of promise. But we are just looking at implementation for now on type4. We will talk more about this later, but you'll get nothing else out of us for now on the matter.

For number three you win the balloon for the day!

You know what they say: Great minds think alike!

Thanks, very illuminating. I ca´n't actually tell the difference between type 1 and 2 yet except for the morale bonus as I haven't teched up enough to see any differences in units etc. So I'll take your word.

[Elthore]

From some of the descriptions it sounds as though level1 and level2 governments lack access to certain regional units that can be trained under level3 and level4 governments. Is this true?

ex.placing a level2 government in galatia as pontus would give you phalanx pikemen but if it were a level3 or 4 govn't you would have access to galatian swordsmen?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

From some of the descriptions it sounds as though level1 and level2 governments lack access to certain regional units that can be trained under level3 and level4 governments. Is this true?

ex.placing a level2 government in galatia as pontus would give you phalanx pikemen but if it were a level3 or 4 govn't you would have access to galatian swordsmen?

Well, I'm not involved as much in unit work, but the idea is that the very best units of any faction are only recruitable in type1 provinces (at the highest level of the MIC building). That's easy. But then a type1 province really won't have access to any local other-faction troops (maybe just a very very low common one). Type4 is the opposite: You should have access to the best possible local other-faction troops there (in addition to all the other lower rung local other-faction troops that your faction could possibly recruit there), but you shouldn't be able to build much except the lowest possible guys from your own unit roster.

I honestly don't know if it's all found its way in yet - I think a simplified version is in now, but this is what we want to achieve.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Bump. Major updates in post 2

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...04&postcount=2

[silencio]

Does it really have to be SO complicated.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It attempts to reflect reality, which was/is complicated. The attention EB has paid to historical realities is enormous but of course it's still just a game. One can be happy with RTW's history and abstractions with the game right out of the box, or one can look for something more. EB tries to provide that "something more." If RTW is too little and EB is too much, then I'm not sure what I would advise.

But here is one possibility:

When conquering a new province, destroy their old government building. Then pick a type1 government. If it's not available, pick type2. If it's not available either, pick type3.

That's pretty simple isn't it?

[Ludens]

So, if I understand it correctly: type I allows you to create all national units but only militia-level regional ones. Type II does the same, but without the elite national units. Both are expensive and bad for trade, but good for growth.

Type III allows allows recruitment of most regional units but only militia-level national ones while type IV allows no national units but all regional ones. Both are bad for growth but good for trade, and both have hapiness bonuses (one because of garrisons and the other because they are not truly occupied).

As I write this I realize this contradicts what Teleklos said, as he recommended against using type III or IV governements in underdeveloped provinces, but these governements allow faster growth, do they? I am just trying to figure out what would be the best choice for construction in a specific province.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

So, if I understand it correctly: type I allows you to create all national units but only militia-level regional ones. Type II does the same, but without the elite national units. Both are expensive and bad for trade, but good for growth.

Type III allows allows recruitment of most regional units but only militia-level national ones while type IV allows no national units but all regional ones. Both are bad for growth but good for trade, and both have hapiness bonuses (one because of garrisons and the other because they are not truly occupied).

As I write this I realize this contradicts what Teleklos said, as he recommended against using type III or IV governements in underdeveloped provinces, but these governements allow faster growth, do they? I am just trying to figure out what would be the best choice for construction in a specific province.

There are a lot of different bonuses to make each of these different for the individual factions (and we definitely haven't gotten to the stage where we are fine tuning the bonuses, and even some of the descriptions yet), but there are some general patterns for sure. You're pretty close in your summary, but in type4 there *should* be some lowest level (the lowest possible level) faction troops that could be trained. I don't know if this works for every faction though to be honest. We still have a lot of fine tuning to do.

We even have some terrific stuff planned for making type4 seem much more like allies and not your own territory. But that's not in the game yet.

Trade is generally not interrupted as much when an alliance or even a type3 is constructed, so there are bonuses there, and sometimes population growth bonuses too (as there is no mass removal of inhabitants). You *could* ally with a province for a number of years, then decide to destroy that govt building and build a better one there if you like. It will still take a longer time to build that type1 or 2 though.

The one thing I really wish I could emphasize to everyone is that you should *not* build any troops or retrain them in a province where you have not built the new government yet. It's an exploit that we are seeking to correct.

Hope this helps Ludens. I think you've got it pretty much right though.

[Han]

nice, I think I'll carve my own empire up and then put my borders to ally state so I won't lose much once thats implemented xD

[GMT]

Someone asked for Karthage elsewhere, so here goes. Dunno if we will settle on this one, but here is Carthage's map:



Again, this is not what we have currently, but what we are aiming for.

type1:
Phoenician Homeland Province\n\nA Phoenician province is the basic building block of Carthaginian power. These encompass cities like Carthage itself, along with Hadramout and Lepki. The Home Provinces combine a rich Phoenician heritage and encompass the major trading and agricultural centers of the Carthaginian Empire, with most of the soldiers formed from Phoenician citizens as well. These provinces are dominated by agriculture and cottage industry, producing the wealth of grain and manufactured goods that make Carthage a rich power. Gazing into the verdant fields surrounding Carthage makes one realize her power.\n\nCarthage is ruled by a Shophet, the Hundred, and the Senate, in descending order of importance. The Shophet is elected and confirmed by the people and the Hundred respectively. The power of the Shophetim is based here, and any aspiring Shophet of Carthage would do well to remember this.

type2:
Phoenician Colony\n\nA colony of Phoenicians under Carthaginian control is known as a Mosaba Ponnit. It has rich agricultural potential, but is not so rich as the home provinces. The colonies are controlled by military governors, who can often amass as much power as the Shophet at home! Typical colonies encompass a city where Carthaginians, Liby-Phoenicians, and Libyans have come to set up industries and make the agricultural potential of a particular piece of land really shine. While not as heavily geared toward trading as the Emporia, the Colony has the base where goods are manufactured and processed.

Is the recruitment system for Carthage already finished?

And if so, why is it that I'm only able to recruit Iberian Velites in most type 2 provinces while I'm able to recruit a lot more unit types in other type 2 (or even type3) provinces with the same MIC level?

GMT

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Is the recruitment system for Carthage already finished?

And if so, why is it that I'm only able to recruit Iberian Velites in most type 2 provinces while I'm able to recruit a lot more unit types in other type 2 (or even type3) provinces with the same MIC level?

GMT

hehe. In your post it says (right after the map) "Again, this is not what we have currently, but what we are aiming for."

But the question you are asking is one for the unit recruitment folks. To be honest I know very little about where units are able to be recruited or even about what factions set what types as able to recruit them. I can talk to you about theoretically what they should do and about bonuses, but that needs a faction coordinator for the Karthadastim to respond. I think that someone is working on a big chart or something to show what units are recruitable in what govts, but I haven't heard about it in the last few days. Sorry i can't respond to specifics about this faction - I know little enough about how greek units are distributed in their govts, much less other factions.