EB Governments

[Spendios]

I just have a little question:
In the beginning on my Pontos campaign I just decided to choose randomly Government types so most of my provinces were in type 2 or 3 (Satrapeia Persike o Hellenike) . After that I converted them to type 1 (Royal Pontos Territory) the strange thing is that now I have a lot of problems with public order and I can recruit less unit types (no more archers and slingers...) since Pontos doesn't seem to have "elite" units (the best infantry are thureophoroi, the best phalanx is pantodapoi phalangitai ) is that worth to convert your provinces in Royal Pontic Territory since other government are less expensive to create and allow to diversify your army ?
Is the decrease of public order normal ?

[GMT]

hehe. In your post it says (right after the map) "Again, this is not what we have currently, but what we are aiming for."

But the question you are asking is one for the unit recruitment folks. To be honest I know very little about where units are able to be recruited or even about what factions set what types as able to recruit them. I can talk to you about theoretically what they should do and about bonuses, but that needs a faction coordinator for the Karthadastim to respond. I think that someone is working on a big chart or something to show what units are recruitable in what govts, but I haven't heard about it in the last few days. Sorry i can't respond to specifics about this faction - I know little enough about how greek units are distributed in their govts, much less other factions.

Oh sorry, I read the update of your other post and there you said it was finished though

Type1 and Type2 governments

Karthadastim


Type1
Phoenician Homeland Province\n\nA Phoenician province is the basic building block of Carthaginian power. These encompass cities like Carthage itself, along with Hadramout and Lepki. The Home Provinces combine a rich Phoenician heritage and encompass the major trading and agricultural centers of the Carthaginian Empire, with most of the soldiers formed from Phoenician citizens as well. These provinces are dominated by agriculture and cottage industry, producing the wealth of grain and manufactured goods that make Carthage a rich power. Gazing into the verdant fields surrounding Carthage makes one realize her power.\n\nCarthage is ruled by a Shophet, the Hundred, and the Senate, in descending order of importance. The Shophet is elected and confirmed by the people and the Hundred respectively. The power of the Shophetim is based here, and any aspiring Shophet of Carthage would do well to remember this.

Type2
Phoenician Colony\n\nA colony of Phoenicians under Carthaginian control is known as a Mosaba Ponnit. It has rich agricultural potential, but is not so rich as the home provinces. The colonies are controlled by military governors, who can often amass as much power as the Shophet at home! Typical colonies encompass a city where Carthaginians, Liby-Phoenicians, and Libyans have come to set up industries and make the agricultural potential of a particular piece of land really shine. While not as heavily geared toward trading as the Emporia, the Colony has the base where goods are manufactured and processed.

Status: Final (ok'd by VC, Qwerty)

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https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...04&postcount=2

GMT

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I just have a little question:
In the beginning on my Pontos campaign I just decided to choose randomly Government types so most of my provinces were in type 2 or 3 (Satrapeia Persike o Hellenike) . After that I converted them to type 1 (Royal Pontos Territory) the strange thing is that now I have a lot of problems with public order and I can recruit less unit types (no more archers and slingers...) since Pontos doesn't seem to have "elite" units (the best infantry are thureophoroi, the best phalanx is pantodapoi phalangitai ) is that worth to convert your provinces in Royal Pontic Territory since other government are less expensive to create and allow to diversify your army ?
Is the decrease of public order normal ?

That's a good idea for Pontos right now actually spendios. They don't have as many elite units right now as some factions. It might be a good idea for you to keep 2's and 3's and some 4's mixed in there instead of going for 1 everywhere. I put a 1 in Sinope and had a long slow go of it. I'm putting a 2 in nikomedia right now.

We will probably have this big exploit fixed in the next patch too - where you can't build any units without a government building in place. So that will help a lot. But until we get bonuses tweaked for govts (we aren't working on that just yet) and some of the best units for pontos in, it might be better to try 2's, 3's and 4's more often for them.

-----------------
GMT - yeah, the map is finished now, but it's not implemented into the game yet. So you won't experience what is on that map yet.

[Ludens]

Hope this helps Ludens.

It does. Thank you very much. I am now a little less baffled by the wealth of options available in EB .

[jebes]

I have a question about conquered provinces. I am the Aedui and I conquered Emporion from the Iberians. In the town, they had installed a level 1 government, while I would normally only be able to install a level 2 in that province.

So, Does that level one building function as a level one government for me, or only the Iberians. Do I need to demolish the building to build my own government, or do I get a "free" level 1 government

P.S. I repaired the building after my conquest and in the construction scroll, the description of the building was exactly the same as my own level 1 building.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I have a question about conquered provinces. I am the Aedui and I conquered Emporion from the Iberians. In the town, they had installed a level 1 government, while I would normally only be able to install a level 2 in that province.

So, Does that level one building function as a level one government for me, or only the Iberians. Do I need to demolish the building to build my own government, or do I get a "free" level 1 government

P.S. I repaired the building after my conquest and in the construction scroll, the description of the building was exactly the same as my own level 1 building.

You should always always always always destroy govt buildings in provinces you capture. We can't make the game do it, but we can damage them 99% to give you the hint.

If you start as the Aedui, we specifically put type1 precursors in the provinces you should be able to build type1 homelands in. You should not use another faction's type1 for your own by repairing it. Trust us, if we could make the game destroy all govt buildings when you capture a town we would, but we can't. THat's why some govts we made really cheap and easy to build, to show how it would be if you didn't make any big changes in a province. It's a serious exploit that totally gets around what we are trying to do with govts - if you rebuild other faction's govt buildings. Hard coded restrictions keep us from making this realistic and avoiding this problem (like 64 building complexes only).

Also, type1 and type2 distribution isn't fixed yet. But will be in future builds.

[Teutobod II]

suggestion on bribes:

shouldnt it be more difficult to bribe a level1 government than maybe a leve4 ??

[QwertyMIDX]

That would be logical, not sure if the game will give us enough rope to manage it though. We can probably do something with scripting and diplomats.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I don't think we can do anything at all with diplomacy other than set it initially (what faction is at war or peace with another). The only other option is to totally get rid of it, and we aren't looking to do that either.

We are trying other things though. Definitely working on it.

[O'ETAIPOS]

Maybe give generals/diplomats in Govt1 cities some temporary trait that increase cost of bribe?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Maybe give generals/diplomats in Govt1 cities some temporary trait that increase cost of bribe?

We're looking into doing some things in the next patch to help this issue, but having an automatic (but temporary) boost for diplomats or generals in type1 govts might be a good idea, yeah.

[QwertyMIDX]

Maybe give generals/diplomats in Govt1 cities some temporary trait that increase cost of bribe?

Mal and I already talked about this actually, it's in the works.

[Yun Dog]

Hi,
Thanks for this thread its helpful

re: units - I know you said you dont know the specific of what can be built where as far as unit

But in my Romani campaign I took the two southernmost cities on the Italian peninsular - I then built type I government buildings there

I have built a couple of levels of MTC there also

I cannot recruit a single type of soldier in either city - what am I doing wrong?

Re: destroying old or ex-government buildings - I attempt to do this - but sometimes I think Im destroying more buildings than I need to - like Government houses and temples and training complexes etc - Is there a charateristic mark/name/field desc to look at which will tell me clearly which building I can keep and which I should demolish

sorry if this has been answered alot - I just havent figured out what Im doing as far as troop recruitment yet

great work on the mod btw

[Dayve]

It's good that you're working on he bribing 'issue'... Ptolemaics seem to be able to bribe way too many cities than their treasury should allow... It's like vanilla all over again, where instead of recruiting an army you recruit 5 diplomats and invade enemy territory with them, in 5 turns the enemy military has crumbled and they are on the brink of collapse.

[QwertyMIDX]

The Ptols will always be terrifyingly rich.

[Elthanas84]

In my games I always destroy the Gov-Buildings after conquering a province.
But it is a real pain in the Butt that you have to repair your Gov-Buildings everytime a city is bribed, when you get it back the next turn.

[jebes]

Re: destroying old or ex-government buildings - I attempt to do this - but sometimes I think Im destroying more buildings than I need to - like Government houses and temples and training complexes etc - Is there a charateristic mark/name/field desc to look at which will tell me clearly which building I can keep and which I should demolish

The only building you need to destroy is the actual government building. sometimes there are more than one government buildings if the city has been taken by more than one AI faction.

However, it is very easy to tell which buildings are in question. They all have a large number in the top right of the picture. No other buildings need to be destroyed. Another hint is the fact that they will all be damaged 99%. Just destroy those buildings and no others and you should be fine.

One note, don't destroy it if you happened to own the province before and built a government. You can just repair those and go on about your campaign.

[Ludens]

I am wondering why these maps aren't added to the EB maps topic? No doubt it would be useful to know where type I and II governements are available.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah, they aren't what is in the game currently though. Hopefully the patch will have these matched up correctly and then these govt maps can be more useful then. I'll probably link to them in the map thread as soon as we have these in the game for everyone.

[Ludens]

Yeah, they aren't what is in the game currently though. Hopefully the patch will have these matched up correctly and then these govt maps can be more useful then. I'll probably link to them in the map thread as soon as we have these in the game for everyone.

I see. Thanks for the information.

[orwell]

Would there be any benefit to building a type 3 or 4 government as the Romani if I can build a type 2 besides quick installation? If I were to build a type 3 or 4 in Taras could I recruit Samnite Heavy infantry?

[jedispongee]

Taras will recruit Greek troops (Peltasts, etc), rather than Italians (ie Samnites).

[Obelics]

Thanks Teleuklos, that is what i wanted to read, one only question, is there a possibility to make all this in PDF. format to add in the EB0.8 install file? If so im just going to buy a new cantridje for my printer and print all down...

EDIT: it should be fantastic to have a .pdf EBguide printable guide...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Would there be any benefit to building a type 3 or 4 government as the Romani if I can build a type 2 besides quick installation? If I were to build a type 3 or 4 in Taras could I recruit Samnite Heavy infantry?

Until the reforms happen and you can build roman troops in those (formerly) greek provinces, I'd stick to type 3 or even 4 in almost all provinces the romans don't start with. Then when the reforms happen, you can destroy them and build your type1's or 2's. That gives you the best recruitment options as time progresses.

[tk-421]

I am sure that the EB team has made a good decision, but I am curious about why Iberia gets type two governments in Ireland. Was there some sort of ethnic connection between the ancient inhabitants of Ireland and the Iberians? Some migration from Iberia to Ireland? Something else?

[Sarcasm]

Yes, historically there were migrations from the northern and northwestern parts of the Iberian Peninsula to what is nowadays Ireland.

They basically overran the other people that lived there, becoming the dominant force in the isle.

[edyzmedieval]

I am sure that the EB team has made a good decision, but I am curious about why Iberia gets type two governments in Ireland. Was there some sort of ethnic connection between the ancient inhabitants of Ireland and the Iberians? Some migration from Iberia to Ireland? Something else?

Actually, the north-western part of Spain(just like in France) has celtic origins.

[Darkarbiter]

About the whole idea of spawning governers on building a certain government type in a province and adding individual bonuses depending on the province. Yet another thing that was in MTW but not in RTW (each province had a scroll that could be assigned to a general that added command or acumen or pretty much anything). Perhaps governers should only be spawned upon construction of an academy or higher type building or just as soon as a government is built for barbarian factions. Also perhaps extra traits should be introduced for allready existing buildings of significant importance (silk roads that scrolls thing in rome etc). Would be good.

[Avicenna]

Yes, I think it was something like that. In some other post in the EB forum, I think someone said that the Irish had very similar genetic makeup to the ethnic Iberians.

[sgsandor]

are these good for .81a or .82?