European GPS system

**KukriKhan** · 12-29-2005, 04:03

Sure seems like a lot of money and effort just to "keep up with the Jones's".

Still, it's your tax dollars, not mine, so: go for it - and hurrah for that.

'American monopoly' seems a slight misrepresentation, (albeit a fashionable one in many quarters) since GP service is provided free, aside from the cost of hardware. Is anyone aware of some profit gained by providing GPS worldwide, with an average uptime of 99.98% http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art....jsp?id=188222 ?

**Papewaio** · 12-29-2005, 04:53

The first two satellites are testing platforms... the system will rely on 30 of these in total and in future receivers are to be made that can work with both the US and EU systems.

With the advancement of atomic clocks and the ability to make them hand held (it can be done, just not at a commerically viable level yet) ...the accuracy of the clocks is one of the things that helps pinpoint your position by comparing your time with that of 3 GPS sats (it can be done with 2 but accuracy is not that good)... and the age of the US fleet and the amount of people wishing to use these systems increasing it is a good thing that the EU chips into the system.

**Papewaio** · 12-29-2005, 04:57

Also the EU system will be free for the public (1m accuracy), for commerical users they will have to pay (1cm accuracy) with the exception of safety... seach and rescue, air traffic will get the commerical accuracy but be free from what I can gather.

**KukriKhan** · 12-29-2005, 05:03

With the advancement of atomic clocks and the ability to make them hand held (it can be done, just not at a commerically viable level yet)

1979...Staff Sergeant Kukri in a swamp near MacDill Air Force base in central Florida, lugs a 75-pound pack of electronic gear, with a 12-foot whip antenna, sweating his (then) skinny arse off, and strains to hear the reassuring "beep-beep" in his headphones of the confirmation signal from the invisible satellite above - telling him that he is indeed in grid square UT26898882 - which he knows to be true by visual observation, and old-fashioned land-nav techniques...and he ponders, between swipes of his face with his trusty hanky, what it means to have a eye-in-the-sky tell one where one is.

And it amazes SSG Kukri that such devices get carried in one's shirt-pocket these days.

**Redleg** · 12-29-2005, 05:42

Originally Posted by KukriKhan

1979...Staff Sergeant Kukri in a swamp near MacDill Air Force base in central Florida, lugs a 75-pound pack of electronic gear, with a 12-foot whip antenna, sweating his (then) skinny arse off, and strains to hear the reassuring "beep-beep" in his headphones of the confirmation signal from the invisible satellite above - telling him that he is indeed in grid square UT26898882 - which he knows to be true by visual observation, and old-fashioned land-nav techniques...and he ponders, between swipes of his face with his trusty hanky, what it means to have a eye-in-the-sky tell one where one is.

And it amazes SSG Kukri that such devices get carried in one's shirt-pocket these days.

Well Kukri - you should of went hiking with me in Yellowstone this summer - Just a topographic map - a nice one from the forest service, and a compass to insure I did not lose my way.

No GPS for me when I take a walk into the wilderness.

**Papewaio** · 12-29-2005, 06:05

Well in Geophysics we had the option to use hand held differential GPS systems that are accurate to a couple of centimetres.

It requires a base station receiver and the use of roaming receivers that use the base station as a calibration point.

The thing is it is not just the GPS receivers that are getting smaller it is the atomic clocks... from 2m cubes to 2cm cubes that can be hand held... that can really increase accuracies... and make satellites that are far lighter and hence cheaper to launch.

**jayrock** · 12-29-2005, 06:16

Originally Posted by Redleg

Well Kukri - you should of went hiking with me in Yellowstone this summer - Just a topographic map - a nice one from the forest service, and a compass to insure I did not lose my way.

No GPS for me when I take a walk into the wilderness.

i grew up the same way, my grandfather taught me how to use a map and compass before i was a teen, i still use the old fashioned way in summer, but in winter i definetley us the gps, with the snow its easy to become disorientated, especially i white out conditions, another plus was on the volunteer search and rescue missions i used to do, if we found someone, we could relay gps coordinates for medivacs, or any other supplies or extra personel we needed, my gps unit is about the size of a large pda, by choice i like the bigger lcd screen.

**KukriKhan** · 12-29-2005, 06:33

jayrock...but in winter i definetley us the gps, with the snow its easy to become disorientated, especially i white out conditions...

jayrock adds an impotant paradigm - what do you do when confronted with a (almost) featureless terrain (snow, desert, water)? Like ByzPrince's "...dead Siberian part...

Follow your nose? Give the dogs their heads? Or electronics?

Given that ElectroMagnetic Pulse theory hadn't prevailed, I guess I'd go with the reverse order: electronics, then dogs, then me.

But I digress; euro's sent a rocket into space to place a comm sat... cool.

**KukriKhan** · 12-29-2005, 06:09

Originally Posted by Redleg

Well Kukri - you should of went hiking with me in Yellowstone this summer - Just a topographic map - a nice one from the forest service, and a compass to insure I did not lose my way.

No GPS for me when I take a walk into the wilderness.

No doubt that would have been a good time.

I discovered a knack for orienteering in the army. But then, we infantry-types have always relied on you redlegs to get it precisely correct when it comes to lobbing explosives to the right spot, so your experience and training might have given you an edge.

Pape raises a good point: redundancy of communications is usually a good thing, if not always cost-effective in the shortrun. So maybe I temper my criticism of Galileo, ignoring the politics and looking to its utilitiy.

**Ronin** · 12-29-2005, 10:13

Originally Posted by KukriKhan

Sure seems like a lot of money and effort just to "keep up with the Jones's".

Still, it's your tax dollars, not mine, so: go for it - and hurrah for that.

'American monopoly' seems a slight misrepresentation, (albeit a fashionable one in many quarters) since GP service is provided free, aside from the cost of hardware. Is anyone aware of some profit gained by providing GPS worldwide, with an average uptime of 99.98% http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art....jsp?id=188222 ?

the problem isn´t one of having to pay for it....it´s knowing that if the US military wants too, it can shut down the system and leave everyone else hanging.

One shouldn´t depend on someone else for something of this importance.