European GPS system
Galileo, the European rival to the American GPS system, launched its first satellite from Kazakhstan this morning.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4555298.stm
I think this, despite being pretty damned expensive, is a good thing, ending America's monopoly on all things space-related. Hopefully this is the first step towards greater European space endevours.
The mission control is in Guildford though; "Guildford, we have a problem" doesn't quite have the same ring to it....
Re: European GPS system
A good thing I guess. Can't think of anything bad. Although you are VERY wrong in thinking we have a monopoly on all things space-related..Originally Posted by thrashaholic
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Re: European GPS system
Good for the EU. Now quit whining about the internet and make your own.
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Re: European GPS system
All we need is a lot of string and some empty baked-bean tins!
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Re: European GPS system
Frankly I don't see much of a progress from one satelite. Also consider that Russia already has its own system called GLOSNAS, and last I checked Russia was in Europe(except the dead Siberian part). The thing to remember is that the US has about 24 satelites working for the GPS system around the world, and this system is run by the US military, and they can turn it off whenever they want(and they do that often too!).
Re: European GPS system
Sure seems like a lot of money and effort just to "keep up with the Jones's".
Still, it's your tax dollars, not mine, so: go for it - and hurrah for that.
'American monopoly' seems a slight misrepresentation, (albeit a fashionable one in many quarters) since GP service is provided free, aside from the cost of hardware. Is anyone aware of some profit gained by providing GPS worldwide, with an average uptime of 99.98% http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art....jsp?id=188222 ?
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: European GPS system
The first two satellites are testing platforms... the system will rely on 30 of these in total and in future receivers are to be made that can work with both the US and EU systems.
With the advancement of atomic clocks and the ability to make them hand held (it can be done, just not at a commerically viable level yet) ...the accuracy of the clocks is one of the things that helps pinpoint your position by comparing your time with that of 3 GPS sats (it can be done with 2 but accuracy is not that good)... and the age of the US fleet and the amount of people wishing to use these systems increasing it is a good thing that the EU chips into the system.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: European GPS system
Also the EU system will be free for the public (1m accuracy), for commerical users they will have to pay (1cm accuracy) with the exception of safety... seach and rescue, air traffic will get the commerical accuracy but be free from what I can gather.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: European GPS system
1979...Staff Sergeant Kukri in a swamp near MacDill Air Force base in central Florida, lugs a 75-pound pack of electronic gear, with a 12-foot whip antenna, sweating his (then) skinny arse off, and strains to hear the reassuring "beep-beep" in his headphones of the confirmation signal from the invisible satellite above - telling him that he is indeed in grid square UT26898882 - which he knows to be true by visual observation, and old-fashioned land-nav techniques...and he ponders, between swipes of his face with his trusty hanky, what it means to have a eye-in-the-sky tell one where one is.With the advancement of atomic clocks and the ability to make them hand held (it can be done, just not at a commerically viable level yet)
And it amazes SSG Kukri that such devices get carried in one's shirt-pocket these days.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: European GPS system
Well Kukri - you should of went hiking with me in Yellowstone this summer - Just a topographic map - a nice one from the forest service, and a compass to insure I did not lose my way.
No GPS for me when I take a walk into the wilderness.
O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean
Re: European GPS system
Well in Geophysics we had the option to use hand held differential GPS systems that are accurate to a couple of centimetres.
It requires a base station receiver and the use of roaming receivers that use the base station as a calibration point.
The thing is it is not just the GPS receivers that are getting smaller it is the atomic clocks... from 2m cubes to 2cm cubes that can be hand held... that can really increase accuracies... and make satellites that are far lighter and hence cheaper to launch.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: European GPS system
No doubt that would have been a good time.
I discovered a knack for orienteering in the army. But then, we infantry-types have always relied on you redlegs to get it precisely correct when it comes to lobbing explosives to the right spot, so your experience and training might have given you an edge.
Pape raises a good point: redundancy of communications is usually a good thing, if not always cost-effective in the shortrun. So maybe I temper my criticism of Galileo, ignoring the politics and looking to its utilitiy.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: European GPS system
i grew up the same way, my grandfather taught me how to use a map and compass before i was a teen, i still use the old fashioned way in summer, but in winter i definetley us the gps, with the snow its easy to become disorientated, especially i white out conditions, another plus was on the volunteer search and rescue missions i used to do, if we found someone, we could relay gps coordinates for medivacs, or any other supplies or extra personel we needed, my gps unit is about the size of a large pda, by choice i like the bigger lcd screen.
Re: European GPS system
jayrock adds an impotant paradigm - what do you do when confronted with a (almost) featureless terrain (snow, desert, water)? Like ByzPrince's "...dead Siberian part...jayrock...but in winter i definetley us the gps, with the snow its easy to become disorientated, especially i white out conditions...
Follow your nose? Give the dogs their heads? Or electronics?
Given that ElectroMagnetic Pulse theory hadn't prevailed, I guess I'd go with the reverse order: electronics, then dogs, then me.
But I digress; euro's sent a rocket into space to place a comm sat... cool.
Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.
Re: European GPS system
the problem isn´t one of having to pay for it....it´s knowing that if the US military wants too, it can shut down the system and leave everyone else hanging.
One shouldn´t depend on someone else for something of this importance.
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Re: European GPS system
Huh? CERN created the World Wide Web; go and use the ARPANET, if you insist.
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Re: European GPS system
One of the guys envolved in the Galileo project was my lecturer last year. Small world.
BTW, about the american monopoly of 'space'. You are forgetting that most aircraft are still built in Russia. Even the NASA ones. you can google for 'Energia increasing production' Energia is a russian company that builds spacecraft.
Makes you miss the cold war doesn't it?
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Re: European GPS system
Redundancy for a system like GPS is a good thing. I also like the "cooperative" research aspects of the ESA focusing on projects like ion drives while NASA tries the big stuff. We have a lot more to spend and I'm dying for a hunk of moon cheese.
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Re: European GPS system
It's that it won't be turned off which is the important bit. Imagine if it was turned off for 'safety' just as a few airliners are landing. Could lead to lots of dead people.
Re: European GPS system
It cannot be completely turned off. It just turns on selective availability. It causes the following problems:
degradation of the GPS range signal
orbit errors (ephemeris)
clock errors (dithering)
SA on: position accuracy 100 m.
SA off : accuracy 10 m.
Re: European GPS system
I think this is a bad thing. According to my paper today it can (read will) be used as part of a system to track the location of all vehicles in Europe in due course.
As for GPS in the wilderness, I held out as long as I could. But now the buddy I used to go hiking in the highlands with each winter can't always make it, and if you are going to be on your own and a white out/fog/driving rain is possible, its pretty comforting to have some back up even if it does only confirm you are where you thought you were. I haven't myself found it accurate or reliable enough to replace good old map and compass even if you wanted it to.
To be honest I use the altimeter more than anything, I never realised what an aid to navigation one of those was until I had it.
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: European GPS system
That's assuming the rest of Europe is going to follow in the UK's footsteps, and I don't think that will happen. To many privacy issues.
Re: European GPS system
for vehicle tracking, dont you have to have a gps transmitter or reciever mounted to the car, and if so is that required by law, if yes, then id have a problem with that...
ill second the altimeter, i use it in winter when we snow machine, you have to adjust your jets on the carb based upon altitude and tempurature, takes alot of the guess work out of having a smooth running machine...
my main use for the gps in winter is, when we get to where we park the motorhome, i set that as base camp, then no matter where i go, or visibility, all i have to do is turn it on, get a signal lock, which has never failed yet, knock on wood, and that will point me in the direction to camp..
my other use used to be on the volunteer search and rescue missions, with it i was able to get lat and long coordinates and the copters could fly right to us it made things much faster, and i credit it with saving at least two peoples lives we found out in the wilderness with severe expsoure. copter was there in 5 minutes instead of 10 or 15,
i got a magellan for xmas a few years ago, and its a nice one, it has an altimeter, a barometer, and i got the topographical maps on a cd, it really helps.
Re: European GPS system
The US is also experimenting on using GPS to track all vehicles.
E-tracking, coming to a DMV near you.
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Re: European GPS system
Yay, individualized anal cameras can't be far off!
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Re: European GPS system
I haven't found the navigation features all that useful myself. Sure, it can tell you distance and bearing to a point, but of course it doesn't tell you about the cliff in the way. I think trackback is especially dangerous in that regard even if you set it to record points very frequently. Some times you can't afford to cut a corner...my main use for the gps in winter is, when we get to where we park the motorhome, i set that as base camp, then no matter where i go, or visibility, all i have to do is turn it on, get a signal lock, which has never failed yet, knock on wood, and that will point me in the direction to camp..
Not that this is a criticism, I'm actually glad it doesn't replace map and compass and its a handy back up if you understand its limitations. But I am sure they will be increasingly used as the primary (and only) navigation tool by people and that's when the accidents will start
"The only thing I've gotten out of this thread is that Navaros is claiming that Satan gave Man meat. Awesome." Gorebag
Re: European GPS system
(no pun intended).
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