Eastern Nomadic Factions... Need Help? Ask here.

[Steppe Merc]

Howdy. I was planning on writing some guides for the Sarmatian, Yuezhi and Parthians, but my computer crashed, and I couldn't.

So if anyone needs advice about units, tactics, buildings, or historical questions, ask them please.

[Spendios]

I'm curious about the mysterious Yuezhi, I just want to know more about their military tactics, units and organisation ?

[Steppe Merc]

Unfourtanetly, you asked about the one nomadic group I don't know to much about.

You could learn a bunch from Jurchen Fury, in this thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...14#post1019414

[Spendios]

Ooops I didn't noticed the Yuezhi thread !
Thanks !

So another question I haven't seen female sarmatian warriors yet, will they be included and historically what was the status of sarmatians women ?

[Steppe Merc]

This was a long debated issue. Women almost certaintly fought in some tribes, but how many or in what number is not sure. Many Scythian and Sarmatian kurgans (burial mounds) with females that often have very rich clothing and equipment often have weapons. Again, how much of this was for ceromy or hunting as opposed to war is up to debate. However its is likely that at least some women fought.

And I believe we have a Sarmatian Noblewoman scheduled. Not like the RTW ones, but pretty much the same but a bit fancier clothes as the males.

[The Persian Cataphract]

I've got a few comments about the Parthian campaign. It's tough as nails, basically, because they start out with a horrid economical situation which is bound to cripple unless one prepares to take over rebellious Seleucid provinces (Hyrcania, Hecarompylos/Hecatompylos, and Maracanda are the usual suspects). The upkeep of the Dahâ light cavalry (Ok, so they aren't Dahâ, but they have a weird name that I can't place in my memory, but the Parthians have aplenty of them) is basically the major sinking force, as they will contribute to an economical decline. The choice is to be made, whether to merge them with a campaigning force, or to disband the horse archers.

I find it hard to do anything at all if I don't queue up a number of buildings that benefit economy and trade. I'm talking about Kiat, where I usually queue up the paved road, and river docks, while I queue standard roads in Nîsâ. Obviously basic farming as well.

In RTR, my first priority was to always wipe out Bactria first. This would secure my flank, as well as I'd work down to Gedrosia. Obviously, this could be done relatively easy because the Parthians are settled quite close between the two factions, Bactria and Seleucia, with Saramana and Chakdara, in which Chakdara was a potential cashcow, easily cashing in over 4000 denarii, with an administrator with legendary administrator trait. Obviously, the same can't be done here in EB. Thing is, I usually want the alliance with the Seleucid empire to last as long as possible, rather taking on Bactria to gain a foothold than to face the Seleucids head on.

I'm sorry to hear that your computer crashed, merc. There are freeware file recovery apps if you feel the need (PC Inspector by CONVAR is a good example) to retrieve any lost files, but I'd like to know how you managed to advance with the Pahlavâ, as well as directly dealing with the crippled economy. Obviously, with Nomadic rebels to the North, Bactria to the far East, and Seleucid Empire to the direct east and south, Parthia is basically pincered between one powerhouse, one army with horse archers and one army that should be dealt with quickly (Oh, Bactria can be a nightmare at the late stages of play, RTR has proven this lesson to me a few times)

I know that horse archers are nearly godly, but with such a crippled economy, one has to either sacrifice them or begin a much rushed campaign and be hopeful to capture rebel provinces before any of the allies get the chance.

[Mouzafphaerre]

Ooops I didn't noticed the Yuezhi thread !
Thanks !

So another question I haven't seen female sarmatian warriors yet, will they be included and historically what was the status of sarmatians women ?

.
See the Scythian Warrior-Priestess thread at the Monastry for a discussion and also invaluable information on Proto-Turks from Jurchen Fury, our heavenly kaghan!
.

[jurchen fury]

I'm curious about the mysterious Yuezhi, I just want to know more about their military tactics, units and organisation ?

Alternatively, you could try getting Montvert's "Armies of Bactria" book by Nikonorov, Ch. 4 on the Da Yuezhi, which is a good source mostly for pictorial depictions of warriors though. I'll just briefly sum it up. Basically, Nikonorov speculates that before the Yuezhi migrated to the west and made contact with the Saka/Indo-Saka peoples, the majority of the Yuezhi armies were made up exclusively of the typical nomad horse archer armed with a recurved composite bow (3 types). When they later migrated to the Ili region sometime between 174 - 158 BC and made contact with the Sakas/Indo-Sakas, they quite possibly adopted the "cataphract" panoply of the Indo-Sakas where the armoured "skirts" that the cavalryman wore covered up, beside himself, a good deal of the sides of the horse as well, making it a "special" type of cataphract (the horse didn't seem to have worn much armour though) panoply. This type of cataphract cavalry can be seen on coins depicting Indo-Saka rulers in the 2nd - 1st centuries BC. Later, there is direct archaeological evidence of presumably Yuezhi cataphract cavalry from the Khalchayan relief (though I've seen some authorities, notably Albert Dien, suggest that it was more Parthian than anything else). So, during the middle of the 2nd century BC onwards, the Da Yuezhi presumably utilized their armies much like the Parthians did, a combination of lightly armoured horse archers and heavily armoured cataphracts, the former constituting the majority of the soldiers of steppe armies while the latter were probably a minority elite, as was typical of most steppe armies later in history after their widespread adoption of the cataphract. Before the Da Yuezhi had direct contact with the Saka, it seems likely that Yuezhi armies were much like their eastern neighbors, ie the Xiongnu, who probably exclusively utilized light-horse archers and didn't adopt cataphract tactics until much later in history, when they captured cataphract equipment from their eastern neighbors, the proto-Mongolic Xianbei, in the early 4th century AD, and who interestingly might've developed the cataphract equipment on their own. Very possibly one of the reasons why the eastern steppe nomads appeared to have picked up cataphract equipment later than the nomads of the western steppe might've been that the bows of the eastern steppe nomads were more developed and powerful than those of the western steppe, though the earliest cataphract equipment were actually found in Khwarezm/Chorasmia near the part of the Amu-Darya close to the Aral Sea.

Also, it is possible that, while the Yuezhi utilized the old "Scythian" recurved composite bow that was stored in a gorytos, that the Yuezhi also used, like the Xiongnu, the "Sassanian-type" (a conventional name for this type of bow due to the abundance of its depictions on Sassanian bowls, its origins had been suggested by Maenchen-Helfen to have actually been from the southern Siberian region) recurved composite bow as well as the "Hunnish"-recurved composite bow (in which case a surviving piece of that type of bow was found in Niya, southern Xinjiang, dated to the 1st - 4th centuries AD). Both these types of later bows had extended ears made of bone though the "Hunnish" type had assymetrical limbs and more bone pieces attached to it than the "Sassanian" ones, but both were larger, as well as more powerful than the old "Scythian"-recurved composite bow that was commonly used by western steppe nomads until the appearance and western expansion of the Alans into Sarmatian-held territory west of the Caspian in the 1st century AD, who in turn might've gotten it from the Kangju.

[Mad Guitar Murphy]

hi, let me thank you guys of the EB team first for making a fantastic mod. I don't know how you guys did it and what magic you used but it turned out superb IMO:)

Since the release of the OB I have played as Parthia for a while know and conquered almost all of Iran, Uzbekistan, Turkemenistan and Tadzjikistan, I started not by disbanding anything or building any economic buildings but by taking the Seleucid lands in Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Tadzjikistan. Even though this does not solve the money problem right away (after these conquests I was about 20 k in debt) it is I think the only way to create aqn economically strong empire.

Ofcourse you have to face much larger Seleucid armies this way and this can a problem because of their Ubermensch 2 HP generals that are ummune to arrows. In my campaign Bactria started to expand to the east and didn't bother me much so this way I had my hands free to use every soldiers I ahd against the Seleucids.

Perhaps you should try this tactic because for me it works fine. gl


Mad guitar Murphy

[The Persian Cataphract]

Now that's what I call a very bold strategy. Not only being in financial debt, but to face Seleucid forces, with Hetairoi cavalry generals (übermensch, eh? Well, maybe not that drastic, but yeah they are annoying nutcrackers). It might be good for taking on Bactria, but then you'd have a two-front war.

I can understand the stress of having 20k in debt. It seems like your strategy works, considering that you've seized said areas it might be something for me to try. I'm still too much comfy disbanding Thanvabara and Daha horse archers, to get the Arshtibara light spear/archer combo. Dunno if it's a bug or something but the Ârshtîbârâ makes the Thanvâbârâ quite obsolete, having superior missiles, defence stats, lower upkeep, lower recruit cost, and a light spear to repel light cavalry. I swear, I've grown some new respect to the ârshtîbârâ. They are perfect against those pesky nomad horse archers. They outrange horse archers, as well as their greater numbers are benefitial, and they can defend themselves once those nomad archers close in to charge! The Ârshtîbârâ rocks. I never use the obsolete Thanvâbârâ or the Nîzag Gûnd infantry. None of them are as cost effective as the Êrânshahr Ârshtîbârâ. Even those pesky Seleucid Pantodapoi levies are chanceless against them, considering that they can be weakened considerably with arrows and with slope advantage defeat them.

The strategy could work, depending on when to strike Maracanda. It is prone to rebel as well, and once you do capture Soghdiana during the rebellion, the Seleucid are free to dismiss the province, until they decide to break their alliances and trade with the Pahlava. Maybe I'm just being overly paranoid with the careful strike strategy. Eitherway, during the Hecarompylos/Hyrcania revolt, a skilled general could choose to split up the troops to capture both settlements at the same time.