goals for the papacy

[Peasant Phill]

I've recently started an early/hard papacy campaign on the XL mod. I wanted something different then the same old invade and conquer strategy ( even on GA). I heard someone talking on this forum about his papacy campaign where his main objective was to spread catholicism over the whole known world (75% in every province).

With this in mind I started my GA papacy campaign. Unfortunately no interesting GA goals, only the crusades and homelands.

So here is my question: What goals should I pursue?

I was thinking among the lines of
- booting every non catholic faction out of West and Central Europe
- ensuring the lasting capture of the crusader states by a catholic factions
- ensuring catholicism as the largest and widespread religion (at least 30 % everywhere)

Conditions:
- not attacking catholic factions (unless excommunicated ones)
- no colonies ( unless crusader states)
- priority to agents, secondary military action
- no treaties with non catholic factions (except cease-fire)


What do you think of this? Any other suggestions?

[Banquo's Ghost]

I was thinking among the lines of
- booting every non catholic faction out of West and Central Europe
- ensuring the lasting capture of the crusader states by a catholic factions
- ensuring catholicism as the largest and widespread religion (at least 30 % everywhere)

Conditions:
- not attacking catholic factions (unless excommunicated ones)
- no colonies ( unless crusader states)
- priority to agents, secondary military action


What do you think of this? Any other suggestions?

I like the idea - I was trying to come up with something similar for a future campaign like yours.

My thoughts added the 'recapture' of the Eastern Empire - Byzantium - to ensure that the schismatics of Orthodoxy were brought truly to repentance through fire and the sword.

That would give you a base of provinces, because I'm not sure you will be able to defend yoursel with just the Papal Lands (if that's what you meant by no colonies).

Please tell us how it goes!

[Peasant Phill]

I've already started and am now in the year 1097 our Lords. I've started by queuing a FMAA and sending out my emissary. On the second turn I invaded the boot of Italy (Byzantine territory)with the pope himself (1 star) 1 FMAA, 1 urban militia and 1 spearunit. I captured it after a simple fight against 1 unit of Byz inf and 1 unit of archers. Pope Urban was the instrument of our Lord when he assaulted the fort the subsequent year (guarded by 6 Byz inf) and annexed a new province to His empire on earth.
The next few years Pope Urban focussed on trade by producing ships and securing the borders by strengthening the garrisons slightly and building taverns. For the moment I'm not warring with anybody (Byzantine isn't bordering me) but I'm only allied with the HRE despite many requests of the papal emissary.

My thoughts added the 'recapture' of the Eastern Empire - Byzantium - to ensure that the schismatics of Orthodoxy were brought truly to repentance through fire and the sword.

Yeah good one. But I rather let other catholic factions do it and just supporting them.

That would give you a base of provinces, because I'm not sure you will be able to defend yoursel with just the Papal Lands (if that's what you meant by no colonies).

What I mean with 'no colonies' is that I want an empire in one peace, no provinces here and there (except for Palestine and the likes). I will need more than just my starting provinces sure (that's why I invaded south Italy) but this will go very slowly as I'm surrounded by catholic factions. Sicily has already managed to get excommunicated so I might invade them but I'm not ready to take on there navy just yet (no landbridge anymore) and that's not really setting a good example now is it.

I'll keep you posted on the further developments.

[Weebeast]

That sounds very interesting to play out.

Well I can't really think of anything but since you like the 'agent' approach then why not appoint some of your inquisitors and burn the heathens? Later on there in the game there will be some kinda 'event' in which heretical movements are blooming like flowers.

[Peasant Phill]

I know about the hersery event that occurs in the south of France and north of Italy. I did try to burn the Sicilian king with three of my inquisitors but didn't have any luck (no other general had any stars so I didn't see the point in burning 1 spearman or urban militiaman at a time).
Some turns later I was invaded in Naples by a coalition of Sicilians and Serbs, I was outnumbered 10 to 1 and I only had low quality troops. This surely was the end of my reign so I started a new campaign with one very important lesson learned: never meddle with sea trade until a decent military is established.

So I started a new campaign and immediately build watchtowers and taverns (I mean the building to hire mercenaries). I queued a FMAA in Rome with the intension to invade Naples on the next turn with Pope Urban, the MAA, a militia unit and a spearmen unit.
The battle wasn't promising to be exelirating but I was very pleased with the maneuvering that all worked out. The Byz had a unit archers and a unit byz inf so I was pretty sure I would win but casualties could mount as they were defending a hill with woods on it. Pope Urban made good use of the fact that the archers were exposed and took them out before the real battle began. Meanwhile the spearmen marched up the hill towards the byz inf with its flanks protected by the MAA and the militia men. The Byzantines charged my MAA but the spears managed to make contact first, so I successfully double enveloped the byz and even charge them downhill in the back with Urban and his men. Only one swordsman was able to escape the trap.
The next year Urban (dismounted) assaulted the fort and threw the last hedon soldier in the adriatic sea.

Right now I'm building an army in Rome and try to reach feudal knights as soon as possible. The Papal States well be my agent producing province and Naples my navy producing province with the possibility to hire mercenaries in every province to use in a pinch.

Until now I'm only allied with the HRE but I expect this to change as enough time passes (factions rather like peaceful allies).

My strategy for the next years will be forming an army, spamming Almoravid held Iberia with priests to hopefully start some unrest in order to assist the Portugese and the Castille-Leonais and attacking excommunicated or non-catholic bordering my lands in order to build Gods empire on earth that can produce enough to protect every border.

[Peasant Phill]

The year is now 1123 and a lot has happened since the last post. It seems that almost the entire western Europe is in war with each other instead of turning their attention to other factions of other religious backgrounds. This has had some dire consequences with the extinction of the houses of Norway, Portugal and Arragon. Others are just hanging on by a thread like France (wich will soon cave in under anglo-german pressure) and Hungary (is besieged by both the Serbs and the Volga Bulgars but has had two loyalist uprisings).

As the Allmighty's chosen leader on this earth I tried to save both the Iberian Peninsula and the Hungarian kingdom from been overrun by those barbarians with the only means available to me: assassins and bishops. In Hungary I have been able to provoke two loyalist uprisings with my bishops (or so I tell myself) of wich one was brutally slaughtered and the other one will probably share the same faith. In Iberia only the Spanish are left to fight of the dreaded Almoravids and doing an admirable job with lands constantly changing hands. I do fear that this will eventually end in a miserable defeat for catholicism and a 'reqonquista' isn't something that can be organised just yet.

Pope Giovanni (without any real talents except maybe falling gracefully asleep behind his desk) has ordered an attack on the excommunicated Sicilians. Those ungrateful bastards (if they dare to attack one of the ships of Gods representative on earth than I can call them whatever I like) refused to ally with me and managed to get sunk when they attacked a galley of the papal fleet. What better province to enlarge our empire and influence than Sicily. Pope Giovanni the drooler (hey the word graceful is a subjective one) didn't even care if some of his mercenaries hired for the job were non-catholic. His army consisted two russian spears, a viking unit, an Arab heavy inf, Steppe heavy cavalry and a trebuchet (I expect a siege afterwards) and from his own troops: one FS, 3 archers, 2 FMAA, 2 MS, 2 FK and as a general 1 star FFK. They were up against an army that was made up of 3 RK (lead by the 2 star king) some vanilla spears, urban militia and 4 archer units. This should not pose a problem.
The battle plan is simple: form a spearwall with the Russians on the flanks and bring them just outside the reach of the Sicilian bows. Position the MS on the flanks of the enemy together with the SHC => SHC will shoot and lure a unit away => engage with MS from side and back. This'll cause an all out attack by the defenders (if not Rinse and repeat) and I let my spearwall get engaged while the Vikings and Arabs flank later followed by my MAA. My MS-SHC combination will try to lure away the Sicilian king and destroy him while my knights will flank what they can or fight of flanking attempts of the RK if they aren't engaged with my spear wall.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Looks like Europe needs a strong arm devoted to the Lord's work - perhaps His Holiness Pope Giovanni might welcome martyrdom if he is fond of sleep?

Nice narrative - I look forward to hearing the outcome of the Battle of Sicily

[Third spearman from the left]

Hi
I've just got a quick question about crusades in your game. When the other factions start a crusade do they need your permission? I know that the pope under AI does not allow crusades against his allies even non-christian ones. I was wondering if anything happed in terms of screen messages when a crusade was launched.

[Peasant Phill]

I haven't yet encountered this as no faction has started a crusade. But I think that I won't have anything to say about it. It won't be a problem because I only ally with catholic factions.
Just like when I will crusade I'll need to pay for my own permission and won't see that money again. Ah that's just because it's a tweak by a mod and not a game feature.

[Peasant Phill]

First a side note: it seems the papacy is a challenging faction for several reasons, but the most important one is the 'lack-of-decent-generals-and-draining-of-the-ones-that-come-close' phenomenon. I admit I haven't played the papacy for a long time but I haven't been able to get one decent general (best 1 star that got to 3 with titles until 2 turns later he got a vice and turned him in to 1 star again). For the moment I got a 1 star FK ( because of a title) and a 2 star FFK (titles, vice and 2 battles won), no heirs with ready-made combat experience because the only children of the pope are bastards .
To add to this problem I can't train generals either. When the current pope dies my best general takes his place and becomes mortal . So even if I can get a general some decent stats he will vanish from my game sooner or later.

Back to my holy mission to spread the word of the Lords work across the MTW world if they like it or not.

Now the year is 1126 and the Sicilians still oppose the reign of Pope Giovanni and his harem of coir boys. Two years ago P.G. (thanks to his company he tries to be hip) send his best general and army backed up by a large number of mercenaries to Sicily to teach those pesky sailors that you must love your neighbor as yourself. It was the Sicilian king himself that led some local archers and assorted spear- and militiamen, supported by one of his sons and the Sicilian governor. They were outnumbered but not by much and the king at least had a clue in matters of warfare (3 stars) as opposed to Sir Machiavelli (my 1 star general). Papacy most respected general executed his plan (as stated above) with reasonable success. Casualties mounted up on both sides but at the end the tales of hell and damnation spurred the pagan mercenaries to break the backs of the defenders the moment my FK captured the Sicilian king.
Those annoying island dwellers didn't even remember the euhm 'th commandment: honour your father and mother. They didn't pay to get their king back, needles to say there was a BBQ on Sicily that night.
The next morning still pissed off because kings don't make such good carpets after all, general Machiavelli put those nervous trebuchet vandals to work together with the remaining Arabian delegacy (AHI). Needless to say both sides had casualties and gathered Romans got their bread and games once more.
So this is the situation at the moment on Holy War against the godless Sicilians: Sicily annexed but still at war. My plans are to destroy their fleet and let them bankrupt themselves.

On the matter of our Holy war against other religions (all wars are holy except those condoned by me) the situation on the Hungarian front has turned a bit brighter. The Hungarians have reconquered one province with help from an uprising instigated by the papal bishops (at least that's the report Giovanni or P.G. will get) but this won't last as the Volga-Bulgars are neighboring them in greater numbers.
The Spanish did take their homeland Castile again but at the cost of Valencia. This leads to the first east coast-west coast rivalry, with the Spanish on the West and the Almoravids on the east. My bishops in Spain were on the brink of convincing some gullable Murcians that God himself will lead them to victory and that heavenly bliss awaits them afterwards but the Arabs had ruin the plan by enlarging the garrison with the troops they withdrew from Castile.

My next moves will be rebuilding the port in Sicily so I can withdraw some of my troops there and retrain them, making my agent potential bigger and finally laying the base of my next objective: crusading to the papal states.

[Peasant Phill]

Our Lord has granted Pope P.G. Giovanni I to see the year 1138 and he has led his flock to a better world. Especially P.G. choir boys look ravishing in their new pink robes and Giovanni is working on a new fashion with mini as the core value.

But lets talk politics now. The Almighty’s army on this earth is back to full strength after leading the people of the Isle of Sicily towards the light again. And after some playtime with his rather gigantic collection of rubber duckies in the Holy Jacuzzi His Holiness, ruler of what’s far and wide (the bath salt made him a bit tipsy), decided to defend his shores with fleets of minimum 2 galleys. This duo tactic should always be used in naval expeditions.
I’m finally able to recruit spies to do the Lords work. First I’ll secure my own kingdom and later I’ll flood the Pagan lands with them so Catholicism can regain its position in the east.
As crusades start to take of (English to Edessa and French to Khazaar), The Pope can’t stay behind and the Papal States are been teched up as we speak. Tripoly will be the target and if successful Palestine birthplace of our glorious religion will follow. Giovanni I also changed alliance: as the French are left with only three non adjacent provinces, P.G. negated this alliance for one with England (it has the strongest military and its original lands + the French ones).

The situation in the known world is ambiguous. Catholic factions are slowly bowing to the combined efforts of those treacherous orthodox and pagans. Hungary was barely able to fight off the Serbs when the Cumans invaded them. As strong and brave those people may have been they didn’t stand a chance. Even the proud Polish nation is giving way to the Kievians. Poland and Lesser Poland are captured and the Poles saw no other solution then to invade Bohemian territory in order to survive. But the Bohemians and Genoese seem to cope just fine under constant thread. The Bohemians were able to annex some Kievian Lands and the Genoese withstood a Serbian assault on Venice (I think). Both are still under constant attacks from the HRE. The Pope did even organise a papal siege relief force to help his faithful allies but even before it could march to the rescue the Milanese people revolted and kicked the Serbs back out.

All’s quiet on the western front, well at least it’s gonna be in a little while. It seems the Lord’s work is slow but sure. The Spanish have finally beaten the Almoravids on the Iberian Peninsula: All is in catholic hands except for Murcia and Valencia. The dreaded Arabs have even been thrown back as far as Tunesia. As a result they suffered a civil war where three princes and some of there soldiers build up a kingdom of their own in Valencia. In one of his more lucid moments Giovanni ‘the drooler’ (this nickname will haunt him for the rest of his life) decided to bribe them and use there knowledge of warfare for his holy quest (or was it because someone mentioned that black men have larger …). It was a bargain for only 4400 florins and he expects the princes to swear their loyalty next year.

On a side note:
I know I wasn’t going to conquer lands that weren’t next to mine but I’ll leave them the moment I get the chance. Besides the opportunity of conscript some good generals (5 star, 4 star and 1 star) was to big to miss out on. I only hope that they can’t become popes themselves but it’s idle hope I fear. On the bright side I’ll have a decent general to lead my upcoming crusade and a decent general/pope at home.

[Budwise]

I for one will be an early adapter of MTW II coming out. I will buy it opening weekend and play nothing else. Once I beat the game I will do just this because in your Papacy Game you can actually have one of your cardinals become the pope and that would be just a new twist to keep the game fresh.

I don't feel like swapping Video Cards right now just to play this game because I am flying to Vietnam in two days and I really don't see the point right now.

[Ludens]

When the other factions start a crusade do they need your permission? I know that the pope under AI does not allow crusades against his allies even non-christian ones. I was wondering if anything happed in terms of screen messages when a crusade was launched.

Nothing. There is also no "excommunicate faction" button when playing his holyness. The pope interacts with crusades and diplomacy just like any other faction (though I don't know if he actually receives the bribe for starting a crusade). He can even excommunicate himself for not allowing a crusade to pass .

BTW, great story Phill .

[Peasant Phill]

Pope Giovanni the drooler is dead, all hail pope Giovanni I. At last in the autumn of his life he is finally taken serious, even respected by the leaders of this earth. He is so respected ,I dare to say, that the following popes will all chose Giovanni as their name.
How do you ask? How is it possible that some cleric that was more interested in fabric softener and all the nuances of the colour yellow than politics can force the leaders of the known world to keep him in mind when plotting their next move? Well the answer is this,my friends, his armies have helped to reshaped the surface of the world.

Nothing better to start a post then to use a little drama.
But I wasn't lying, Giovanni went from 3 crowns to 6 or 7 crowns.Here's the story:

Their brother (the Khalif of the Almoravids) attacked them, the year the bribed princes in Valencia would turn towards the light. He could live with the fact that they wanted some lands for their own but that they had forsaken the way of the Prophet for some petty florins was in his eyes a mortal sin. The Khalif split his army in half with one half defending Murcia and the other, lead by him, undertaking an expedition to punish the infidels.
By splitting up his forces he ended the almo reign in Spain (you bad poet you). The Spanish flooded them in Murcia and the Khalif was beaten in a ferocious bridge battle in Valencia. He even got captured together with the rest of his noblemen. This resulted in a huge ransom of the amount of 12250 florins for the papacy. It also meant the end of the Almoravids as they were now bankrupt and unable to withstand the Spanish marching up the North of Africa.
The papal foreign troops (called the PFT's in papal military slang) left Valencia
the first moment possible and left it some catholic rebels.

In the Baltic, the catholic nations were still fighting for survival against those foulharted orthodox. If Giovanni I had something to do with it he would stick the shism ( censured). Even the Danes got involved in this terrible conflict.

The good news is that the West strikes back. France has undertaken a successful crusade towards Lithuania and the an English crusade is running ramped through Georgia and Armenia.
The Serbs were thrown back by the papal forces in Venice when they were besieging the Genoese. This resulted in a major naval war between the papal fleet and the Serbs. A Genoese crusade further whittret the Serbs down and may turn the tide on this front.


The power of the HRE is finally broken and a civil war has erupted with the reappearance ( at least for one turn) of the Venetians as a result.

The superpowers Spain and England have started to war each other in spite of the pleads of Giovanni. He was forced to chose the side of the Spanish.

And in a final not the Byzantines are allmost done for as Egyptians have taken Greece and seemingly won't stop there.

[NodachiSam]

I remember one person playing the papacy whose goal was to make 95% of the map catholic.

[Barbarossa1221]

THIS is the coolest story of a campaign ever!
I cant wait to hear what happens next.
Have you got any inquistors roaming the earth yet? A few of those guys in a muslim or orthodox province can cause a lot of problems and they raise the zeal of the catholics which is good for crusading armies!

I hope the glorious papacy will shine forever and unite Europe!