Why I hate Britain under Blair...

[Mongoose]

You are of course right, but you have to entertain them from time to time. ;)

How was that different from a conservative saying "Oh, yeah?! well...uhhh....uhhhh....you're a COMMIE!" in the middle of a debate? (Refering to the post that was quoted)

[Brenus]

“A similar deal with nativity scenes which are apparantly offensive to (some) muslims” Why?

“WE ARE AN ISLAND, YET OVER 1/2 A MILLION ILLEGAL”: How do you count illegal whatsoever? Immigrants, burglars, criminals? These kinds of figures are non-sense… It is like the secret meetings in unknown place to speak of possible topics. When you know so little, just shut-up…

Now, I am not English, I live in England. And yes, sometimes things are going mad, like 50 P price raise on a £1 tram ticket in two years. And yes politically correctness became too much.
I was watching the 100 years anniversary of the Separation between state and Churches in France. And what was said by the Representatives in 1905 should be prosecuted in England nowadays because it would an offence against Religions. One extreme-left representative (Radical) said Religions are superstitions, defying logic and science. What? Can’t say that today. It is hurting sensibilities…

To come back to the Xmas things, it is stupid. For me, all religions a fairy tales, so let’s cancelled Ramadan, Yom Kippur and all these teachings of non-sense like the guy who allegedly walked on water, the all of them to whom God spoke to etc… But no. Because yes, this is a part of traditions. Father Xmas doesn’t exist but we still celebrate him.

The Flag story is the same kind of things. Why should I be offended because English waves an English flag … Actually, I live in England. Now, he can wave a English flag in France, I don’t bother either. He is English. Now, the offence would be if he burns a French Flag in France (except if it is during a demonstration against the EU Agriculture funds, nuclear power plants and missile or others highly political debate).

For the Sun newspaper and its anti-French stand, I find it funny. First because the chanter of Englishness is owned by an American, second because it puts my British colleague uneasy when I see the titles. This English obsession about the French is incredible…
And about the people put in jail because they killed a burglar, can I remind you that an innocent man was killed by mistake by the police not so long ago. Thing about it, think what the poor police-officer must feel now… And I am not joking. Because I remember a debate in French TV: a guy, pharmacist, killed a burglar. Of course, he acquitted by the Jury. But I always remember what he said to the guy for guns and immediate death penalty: I killed somebody. I can’t believe I killed somebody. I terminate a human life; I saw the blood, the guts all over. I can’t sleep anymore…
So, even when a man is right, it is a little bit more complicated.

Well, perhaps not in Texas.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Would you accept another country invading your own, stealing all your wealth, and not resist if they said they weren't going to kill your fellow citizens?

Luckily, its legal to defend yourself in the USA. In Colorado, for example, a man was found not guilty of murder for shooting a man who had attacked him but had left his house and was sitting in his car.

Your analogy is flawed-this kind of thing would provoke a serious economic crisis, which wouldl likely result in the deaths of citizens of the pillaged nation. Having your TV nicked isn't quite in the same league.

In the example you gave, I would sympathise if the fellow had taken such lethal action while he was being assaulted. However, it disturbs me that you believe it proper for the perpetrator to be shot as he attempted to flee, when he was clearly no longer a threat to anyone.

[BDC]

“A similar deal with nativity scenes which are apparantly offensive to (some) muslims” Why?

Because some people are idiots. I suspect it was the people behind the decision to not show them in this case.

Otherwise I find the wearing of clothes by pretty looking women aged 18-25 offensive.

[Lentonius]

Typo i meant immigrants that illegaly enter the country to live. the sort of folk that like to hop into trucks and cross the channel. The amazing thing is we are sealed off from the mainland yet so many illegal immigrants enter.

[Scurvy]

a lot of illegal imigrants have a very valid reason fro wanting to come to our country, in search of a better life or escape from a troubled area of the world, i realize that the UK can only handle so many people, but i cant help but sympathize...

[Red Peasant]

When ya can't beat them, launch personal attacks, huh?

And I seem to recall that some scandinavian countries have a little immigrant problem too.

What a pathetic attitude. Do you think a mugger, who is already breaking the law, would be stopped by mere laws if he wanted a gun?

In fact, resisting getting mugged with a firearm results in the lowest occurrence of injury, in the USA.

You don't seem to realize that all the money the government spends has to come from its citizens, or, in this case, its subjects.

I also watched a old episode of Flash Gordon recently, about 'Akim the Terrible', a villain who rules a planet of lawlessness, and where men who try to protect and defend old people getting robbed are thrown in prison. Sounds rather like modern Britain, doesn't it?

Crazed Rabbit

Who are you? You obviously see a reflection of yourself in what I said, so if the insult fits, then wear it ;-)

As for this black picture of Britain that is being painted in this thread, well, I live in Liverpool which, according to common received opinion (fostered by bad TV programmes and even worse newspapers), is a baaaad violent place where nobody wants to live, but that is total rubbish. In my 41 years I have never witnessed any serious violence or been the victim of violence. However, surely I must have, I was born and lived for many years in a district with one of the worst 'reputations', a diverse ethnic mix and a constant supply of new immigrants (inc. many 'asylum seekers'). I never feel threatened and I hear of very little violence. I just don't see this near total collapse of British society that all these nutters rave on about. Britain is a great place to live, always has been, and hopefully always will be. (I would like to add that a black teenager was recently murdered in this city because of the colour of his skin but this was, however tragic, a very rare exception, as can be ascertained by the attention it received).

I can add that I have never felt the need to carry or own a gun, nor never will do.

[Kralizec]

Britain is economicly doing better then most EU countries...oh wait, I'm only supposed to mention bad things in this thread right? Damn Blair, it's all his fault! Or was it Barrosso's fault? I'm confused

[Vladimir]

I thought Britain was a civilized, tolerant country. What's with all this "I hate..." speech? What's in your tea?

[Lentonius]

Of course I would want a better life If i was in poverty.

People like Mugabe keep Africa in povery, not the food crisis.
The west gives a huge amount of aid to them and then the dictators buy some nice tanks to blow their own people up with

The british army, possibly the best trained in the world, could take on some of these evil men instead of helping George run into an oilfield so he can imprison a man that annoyed his dad a decade ago...

It would sort out poverty, we could give Africa condoms more easily and help AIDS, and there wouldn't be as many illegail immigrants as Africa would economically start to climb up from its poverty position and the people would be HAPPY

people's money usually ends up in the hands of the dictators, so that the seven year old soldiers can use sharp knives to kill their kin...

Not being a war-a-holic but really kicking the dictators and stopping the weekly civil-wars would help Africa more

[Vladimir]

Selective memory? Are you forgetting about Britain’s involvement in Iraq after WW I, or about the cease fire after the '91 Gulf War?

[ShadesWolf]

Selective memory? Are you forgetting about Britain’s involvement in Iraq after WW I, or about the cease fire after the '91 Gulf War?

saddam should have been destroyed in 91, a fair few more iraq's would still be alive if we had finished the job then.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Who are you? You obviously see a reflection of yourself in what I said, so if the insult fits, then wear it ;-)

I see no reflection of myself, only a reflection of the ignorant thinking of people such as yourself.

Crazed Rabbit

[Red Peasant]

Lol!

I make a general comment aimed at nobody in particular, yet you take it as a personal insult ... the recognition is yours I'm afraid. I didn't have you in mind. Yet, you feel free to aim personal insults at me. I don't mind, I'm big enough to take it. Have a nice day, as you guys say.

[Vladimir]

saddam should have been destroyed in 91, a fair few more iraq's would still be alive if we had finished the job then.

He couldn't have been, remember the UN mandate? We definitely would have lost the Arab members of our coalition. Resolution 1441 was sufficiently vague by promising "severe repercussions" if he didn't comply that we went in this time. Think Oil for Food Scandal as to why. Tony Blair's Britain was one of 30 giving active or logistical support to our recent war effort. I love the Brits, goofy teeth and all. They're not a bunch of "fog breathers" (Family Guy) but some tough bastards (in the good sense of course). I'm all about finishing the job. It's not who starts the fight but who finishes it that's important. Bush '41 was one of those stability over liberty types because democracy is messy. Popular support was also important too; one of the reasons we stopped the war was because the "highway of death" was making the news too much.

[Mongoose]

Lol!

I make a general comment aimed at nobody in particular, yet you take it as a personal insult ... the recognition is yours I'm afraid. I didn't have you in mind. Yet, you feel free to aim personal insults at me. I don't mind, I'm big enough to take it. Have a nice day, as you guys say.

No one hear is deeply offended by some thing a stranger says on the internet. The problem is that Ad Hominem arguments are immature and make the debate go down hill because after about 10 posts, the debate starts looking like this:

person 1: omgz Ur teh commie
person 2: am not
Person 1: am 2
Person 3: u guyz r soooo g@y
Person 2: STFU, u fagzorz

[Red Peasant]

Ah, 'ad hominem' to + accusative case, to the man/person. The thing is, I didn't address it to the Crazy fella, he just recognized himself. Funny innit! ;)

[Mongoose]

A makes a statement. B argues with A. C tells Person A that he's wasting his time because the people of A's political group are: members of the klu klux klan , commies, infidels, religious fanatics, ect. Not very hard to connect the dots.

[Redleg]

The Ad Hominem fallacy

Description of Ad Hominem
Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.
The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

Example of Ad Hominem

Bill: "I believe that abortion is morally wrong."
Dave: "Of course you would say that, you're a priest."
Bill: "What about the arguments I gave to support my position?"
Dave: "Those don't count. Like I said, you're a priest, so you have to say that abortion is wrong. Further, you are just a lackey to the Pope, so I can't believe what you say."

Now lets review your post Red Harvest

You're wasting your breath JAG, the org is gun-nut country, all KKK and flag masturbators.

Anyway, I think taxes should be a lot higher, like in those nice, well-run Nordic countries.

Now what part of the first sentence is toward the arguement of this thread? Or is it directed at the person's of the .org who are presenting their arguements in this thread?

[Red Peasant]

Hey, just having fun with Latin. I don't need to be preached to about the nature of rhetorical techniques and arguments by people who know how to use google.

As for the topic, I'm not particularly enamoured of the guy but I don't hate Britain under Blair. However, I realise some people have 'issues', although I think that they blow the problems of our society -and what society doesn't have problems- out of all proportion.

[Redleg]

Hey, just having fun with Latin. I don't need to be preached to about the nature of rhetorical techniques and arguments by people who know how to use google.

So you were trolling - now nice of you. Making comments that generate constitute a violation of the rules of the forum in which you agreed to when joining. Here it seems you also need a reminder of what one of the rules state.

Posts containing any generally objectionable material: knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. Posting of copyrighted material, unless the copyright is owned by you or by The Guild, is discouraged. The Guild expects its patrons to remain civil even in the face of disagreements. Any kind of "flaming", slurs or insults adressed to an individual or a group is extremely inappropriate. Please respect etiquette at all times.

It seems you knowning and on purpose set out to violate this rule with your initial post and just confirmed it in last one.

Tsk Tsk what should the moderators do.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now I am just having a laugh at your expense

As for the topic, I'm not particularly enamoured of the guy but I don't hate Britain under Blair. However, I realise some people have 'issues', although I think that they blow the problems of our society -and what society doesn't have problems- out of all proportion.

That is the nature of most rhetoric.

[Scurvy]

its the nature of problems to blow out of proportion ^^

and i also think that britain is one of the best places to live in world...

[Vladimir]

its the nature of problems to blow out of proportion ^^

and i also think that britain is one of the best places to live in world...

When you live in relative comfort and safety most problems are. 'tis the nature of the beast.

[King Ragnar]

Lentonius, what you say is true, its what i beleive too, if you want some where good to live come to the north-east, there isnt many immigrants here yet, they may have taken over London, but they will never take Newcastle!!! :D

[JAG]

Lentonius, what you say is true, its what i beleive too, if you want some where good to live come to the north-east, there isnt many immigrants here yet, they may have taken over London, but they will never take Newcastle!!! :D

Spoken like a true bigot.

[Lentonius]

I agree with JAG here, my political opposite.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ILLEGAL AND NON-ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS!!!!!

MY BEST FRIENDS ARE IMMIGRANTS, AND THEY DESERVE TO LIVE HERE AS MUCH AS YOU NOR I!!!

ITS PEOPLE WHO TO LIVE HERE UNLAWFULLY, WHO I THINK DO NOT THEN DESERVE RIGHTS TO LIVE IN THE COUNTRY, AS THEY HAVE PROVEN THEY ARE DISHONEST ENOUGH TO SMUGGLE THEMSELVES INTO OUT COUNTRY...

ILLEGAL immigrants are CRIMINALS

immigrants are INNOCENT

I am not a bigot. people misinterpret illegal and non-illegal.
I am not bigoted to anyone living here justly
I am however, angry at people who unjustly smuggle themselves into MY homeland, and in my mind they are unwelcome guests

[InsaneApache]

Is there a virus that turns CAPSLOCK off?

just an enquirey!!!!

[Ice]

Of course I would want a better life If i was in poverty.

People like Mugabe keep Africa in povery, not the food crisis.
The west gives a huge amount of aid to them and then the dictators buy some nice tanks to blow their own people up with

It would sort out poverty, we could give Africa condoms more easily and help AIDS, and there wouldn't be as many illegail immigrants as Africa would economically start to climb up from its poverty position and the people would be HAPPY

people's money usually ends up in the hands of the dictators, so that the seven year old soldiers can use sharp knives to kill their kin...

Not being a war-a-holic but really kicking the dictators and stopping the weekly civil-wars would help Africa more

Britian and many other European powers are the main reason why places like Africa, Israel, and Pakistan/Indian are so messed up today. So i definately think that you it is up to you to help "kick out the dictators.

The british army, possibly the best trained in the world, could take on some of these evil men instead of helping George run into an oilfield so he can imprison a man that annoyed his dad a decade ago...

I think not.

United States:

• Generally regarded as the last remaining Superpower

http://www.globalfirepower.com/ranking.asp

[Viking]

Is there a virus that turns CAPSLOCK off?

just an enquirey!!!!

You could always make it yourself.

[Vladimir]

Britian and many other European powers are the main reason why places like Africa, Israel, and Pakistan/Indian are so messed up today. So i definately think that you it is up to you to help "kick out the dictators.[/url]

Quick, somebody pull out their list of quotes from The Life of Brian! What did the Romans ever do for us anyway... Poor petty dictators, it's not their fault. They didn't want to ethnically cleanse their countries; the brit’s made them do it. I guess Hitler was Britain’s fault too.

For Israel being messed up, here is the opinion of at least one Arab.

http://intelligence-summit.blogspot....wish-land.html