Ambush in place Sir! (sitting behind a tree...)

**Obelics** · 07-13-2006, 17:57

well, im just courious, on every mod i tryed, it seems that a feature of RTW vanilla, occurs less often on the modifications. I m referring to the "ambush in place!" strategy, when your little men on the Campaign Map sit in a strange position near a forest and wait to ambush some enemy.
Do you use often this nice tactics?
It is nice to have all your enemy marching on a queue, and your army completely sourround them...
But since in the Vanilla this occurred very often to me, seems that in other mods it occurs not so often (it never occurred to me in EB yet, i cant find again a good position to ambush)

So here we are:

1) Do you use this strategy and how often you obtain to surprise your enemy
2) Do you have some preferred place where to hide your army waiting to ambush, and with what faction
3) if you have can you post some screenshots of the best place on the Campaign Map where to pose an ambush?
4) if your ambush go well, how do you set your formation on the battlefield? (example: i sourround the enemy with javelimen or i use heavy infantry to sudden charge them in the flanks etc)

ok, thanks, im very courious

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 07-13-2006, 18:18

Honestly, when it happens with me mostly it is because I forgot a unit I was moving and someone wanders by it.

I don't play as the barb factions much, but I suppose it would be easier to do it with them, as they have denser forests up there. I have seen it though a few times in EB. It certainly isn't cancelled out or anything. Been on both sides of it too - but sometimes you can still prepare even if there is an ambush (it can fail).

**Obelics** · 07-13-2006, 19:01

it is strange, im trying to reproduce it with one of my best Aedui General, he have +1 attack when ambushing, but it seems it always fail.

Im asking myself if the "Ambush do not fail" condition has somethink related with the dimension of your army, it could be possible that a large army has a minor possibility to ambush properly? I have to try with a small army...

**Mujalumbo** · 07-13-2006, 19:04

Split your army. Send your larger force into the bush. Leave your smaller force on the opposite side of the bush. End turn.

If all goes well, the enemy should move to attack the smaller force, and if your general/captain is successful, should ambush them.

You don't need dense forest to ambush; I've ambushed out in the east using a single tree! (On the strategy map, I mean. I suppose it represents some small patch of light forest.) The trick is to use some bait to lure the AI in. Maybe a lone family member or something.

@Obelics: You're right. I don't recall how often my ambushes have failed, but more so than I'd expect.

As for how the actual ambush, well, that's quite a broad topic. It depends on the force I'm ambushing, what units I have, etc., etc. Generally, I'll deploy on both sides in an attempt to crush the force between my men. The goal should be to route, and destroy if possible, the bulk of their army in a single go.

If you're really paranoid about being ambushed, attach a spy or two to your army to scout out potential ambush sites before you move your forces.

**Obelics** · 07-13-2006, 20:30

ah to put a sort of sacrifical prey to attract the enemy in to ambush... it is a good strategy, i have to try it.
Anyway if you haven't a general with a trait relate to ambushing, like "good ambusher" or somethink like this, i think it is harder to get a good ambush. But to obtain these traits you must at last achive your first ambush...ah
Anyway ive just obtain to ambush a 300 men enemy army with my 3 man capitain...aargh so i think the dimension of your army could be a factor.

I must do some try also with my parthians in the East pheraps i will obtain some better result (before i never tryied cause it seems there are few forest, but if you say also a single tree can go...).

Ah i remember that when i played with Romans on vanilla RTW, it was really satisfating to sourround enemies with my legion and to sloughter them without exit... eheh.

must study better the problem regarding wich factors influence your ambush fails/notfails

**Mujalumbo** · 07-13-2006, 20:51

How about the amount of movement points remaining at the end of the turn? Might wanna fiddle around with that, too.

**LorDBulA** · 07-14-2006, 09:46

1) Do you use this strategy and how often you obtain to surprise your enemy
4) if your ambush go well, how do you set your formation on the battlefield? (example: i sourround the enemy with javelimen or i use heavy infantry to sudden charge them in the flanks etc)

I use it when strategic situation force me in to fighting and i know i cant win in a fair battle. Other then that i prefer to use what was coled in 17century Polish way of fighting. I prefer destroying enemy army in few big open field battles.

How to fight in ambush is a big topic. Few tips from my point of view (weaker army ambushing stronger). Concentrate your forces on most dangerous part of enemy army. Your goal is to annihilate in first few minutes most dangerous part of enemy army to even the odds and tip the balance of force to your side.
Dont forget to screen your main attack force so they dont get hit from sides or rear. Use some troops to distract and confuse enemy.
Hiding some archers in such position that they can fire in the back of enemy soldiers advancing against your main force may also be a good idea.

Just remember ambushing is always dangerous.
Ambush can fail or even your ambush can be triggered by some pathetic small stack of enemy troops and instead of ambushing the big enemy army you can end up fighting them in fair battle (my army was annihilated this way once).

Good luck.

**Obelics** · 07-14-2006, 10:37

thanks people, i find the discussion very interesting, ive done a "search" in the forums yesterday but i found too few thinks...

regarding my personal experience, i can remember one of my roman generals to have a "great ambusher" trait, so his ambush go well almost all the time, but im asking now, suppose your army is ambushing near a forest or a tree, now suppose the enemy general has the "scout" trait or somethink like this, i think your ambush cant be achieved, Im also asking myself, if there is an enemy tower near your ambushing army, i think the probability of your ambush do not fail are really low, even if your general says "ambush in place sir".

@majalumbo
i think the remaining movement points could be a factor only for the enemy army, suppose your enemy finish his movement point before to reach your army, and he stops very close your ambushed stack, well i think he will spot your hidden stack, and in the next turn your ambush fails, but im not sure...

Anyway i think i ve found a good place for ambushing after the bridge that link massalia with mediolanum, in a small piece of forest down the Alps. But evil Romans have built a sentryTower, so i think this could be one of the factors that play a disavantage in my ambush to be achieved...

**Olaf The Great** · 07-16-2006, 16:31

I only seem to get them in my Casse invation of Germania, and I ambushed a few people in Gaul...

**Proper Gander** · 07-18-2006, 11:40

i find the mountain pass to Massilia a great place for ambushes, at least, right outside it (on the northern italian side)
enemy armies HAVE to move through there.

Originally Posted by Obelics

it is strange, im trying to reproduce it with one of my best Aedui General, he have +1 attack when ambushing, but it seems it always fail.

that trait does not affect the chance of a successfull ambush, it only adds a command star in case of an ambush

**Comrade Alexeo** · 07-19-2006, 01:00

As far as I know, I have only ever been ambushed once. In my very first vanilla campaign, my Scipii army was ambushed by a Macedonian one. The ambush was successful, so my troops were in a precarious column with trees on either side of a narrow road, but fortunately for me the Macedonian army was comprised almost entirely of phalangites, so by the time they were in attack position themselves I was already in full battle order and easily repulsed them.

I have otherwise never been ambushed, nor have I ever conducted one. I'm fairly aggressive with my armies, and I prefer large-scale set-piece battles so I have room to maneuver, so I don't usually bother taking the time to set up an ambush, instead simply taking the fight to the enemy and then moving on. If my army is static, then I usually withdraw it into a city to reequip and retrain, although occasionally I may deploy them within a fort.

While I'd like to see more of them, especially when fighting against or as the barbarians, I'm either lucky or blunt enough that they just don't happen.

**Tyfus** · 07-31-2006, 17:03

THis is very interesting. I'm going to have to try setting up some ambushes next time I play, it seems like honing this skill could be helpful in some crucial moments.