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Thread: Death penalty - yes or no

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Death penalty - yes or no

    An old debate, that I believe must be held until all realize why death penalty is barbary.

    Why have death penalty?
    - prisons cost money (i.e. logistical/practical reasons)
    - to get the satisfaction of seeing criminals such as murderers suffer and be punished for what they did
    - if crime is genetical, the death penalty will remove "crime genes"

    Why not have death penalty?
    - crime isn't genetical, so it doesn't solve the problem
    - statistics show that death penalty countries have no less criminality
    - innocents are struck by it. There's no excuse whatsoever for mudering an innocent. That murder is made so much worse if you, before the murder, in a harsh voice speak to the one you are about to murder and say: "you're a low dog, and deserve this suffering and death. Your very existence on earth is a threat to normal people! You are like the weed that must be cleaned from a lawn!"
    - the instincts to punish made sense in nature, where flocks had full overview of all individuals in it. One could know for sure whether someone was a criminal or not. In civilization there are walls, ceilings and floors, no surveillance in the world can tell the complete truth. DNA? It can be planted on the spot. Witness reports? With 6 billion humans there are many looking alike, and the witness himself might be a maniac who wants to see a random person suffer. He can't be charged for perjury if the innocent who was killed by death penalty is killed, and the one voice for justice is silenced.
    - the instincts to punish made sense in nature, where it was impossible to build prisons. Prisons can safe keep dangerous people. An innocent man won't suffer too much (although quite a lot still, but it's acceptable) from sitting in prison as from being murdered.
    - the objective of law is to protect ordinary people from horrible crime. If the price for it is to kill hundred innocents, then the objective hasn't been met. The end justifies the means, one can say, but the end is the sum of the end you see, and the means. What you have achieved by death penalty is the safety of all ordinary people except one hundred men and women. As those crimes that are officially seen as crimes don't decrease because of death penalty, you have in reality increased the number of murders by a hundred. Do you count them in the statistics?
    - if you are ruled by your instincts to punish you are ill suited to living in civilization. What would you do if a man blew up themselves to kill your children? Go find his mother and want her killed? Go find his friends and get them killed? Go find the man reading a newspaper on the other side for not interfering, despite the knowledge that that man obviously had no means of predicting what was about to happen?
    - truly innocent people are rare. Very few have so little sin that they may throw the first stone. Jesus was one of them. With a death penalty system, you would be prepared to murder Jesus himself. Murdering the few who exist makes the world a horrible place. The truly innocent people are an inspiration for everyone, and their very existence is what prevents world from falling into darkness.
    - would you like to see innocent people be ass-raped, live for some months in threat of dying, then as last thing in their life hear people calling them murderers, dying knowing that their name will be remembered and associated with horrid crime, rather than innocence. Making them know that they may not be present for their children, or their relatives. Hearing someone read that the entire state wishes to see them murdered?
    - both Judaism and Christianity clearly explains that killing innocents in order to get to the guilty is wrong. See Genesis 18:24
    - Lenin once said: "it's better to let 100 innocent die than letting one guilty escape". Do you want to rank yourself as being on the same level as Lenin and Stalin?
    - the costs for keeping prisons for the people that are now killed is ridiculously small.
    - death penalty is legalized murder. It's not for the safety of the people and prevention of crime, but a bad replacement for a shrink or prison for the worst of all murderers. An executioner is not only a vicious lust-murderer, but a shrewd lust-murderer, who uses law to satisfy his lusts.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 12-21-2005 at 15:23.
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  2. #2
    The Sword of Rome Member Marcellus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    I'm very much against the death penalty, for most of the reasons stated.
    "Look I’ve got my old pledge card a bit battered and crumpled we said we’d provide more turches churches teachers and we have I can remember when people used to say the Japanese are better than us the Germans are better than us the French are better than us well it’s great to be able to say we’re better than them I think Mr Kennedy well we all congratulate on his baby and the Tories are you remembering what I’m remembering boom and bust negative equity remember Mr Howard I mean are you thinking what I’m thinking I’m remembering it’s all a bit wonky isn’t it?"

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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    No.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

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    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    The death of one thosuand guilty is not by far worth the death of one innocent.

    If you know that they`re gonna kill once out, then don`t let them out.
    Runes for good luck:

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking
    The death of one thosuand guilty is not by far worth the death of one innocent.

    If you know that they`re gonna kill once out, then don`t let them out.
    If the fear is their release, then the problem isn't really that they live, but that the prison terms are too low. That particular statement doesn't justify the murder of them, but rather justifies longer sentences.

    And a series of "just one innocent" soon becomes a hundred or a thousand innocents.
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 12-21-2005 at 13:18.
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    Hǫrðar Member Viking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    If the fear is their release, then the problem isn't really that they live, but that the prison terms are too low. That particular statement doesn't justify the murder of them, but rather justifies longer sentences.

    I guess I wasn`t clear enough, as I doesn`t support death penalty.
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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Ok, no problem
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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    No to death penalty.But prisons need to be chanced to something else then Hotels.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    yes
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    yes
    but why?
    Last edited by Rodion Romanovich; 12-21-2005 at 15:22.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    why?
    I do not support the death penalty for all murders defending yourself or crimes of passion. You have to take the death penalty by a case by case basis. I beilive if a man rapes and murders a 7 year old that he should die. I just dont beilive you can rehabilatate that and mystate agrees with me.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  12. #12
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    I do not support the death penalty for all murders defending yourself or crimes of passion. You have to take the death penalty by a case by case basis. I beilive if a man rapes and murders a 7 year old that he should die. I just dont beilive you can rehabilatate that and mystate agrees with me.
    yes, but that's not the only thing there is to it. Those who can't be rehabilitated could be innocents, as it's impossible to fully prove guiltiness. If you don't believe he can be rehabilitated, then that only defends longer prison sentences, not the actual act of murder of the guy, because he might, after all, be innocent. Sure, I hate men who rapes and murders 7 years olds, and I doubt more than just a handful throughout history of such people would have any chance at all at rehabilitation. But I would hold back my wrath and lynch mob feeling and consider the possibility of the guy being wrongfully accused. Then it turns out it's possible to achieve the most important result - to keep him away from people that he can hurt, without possibly hurting an innocent, by longer prison sentences. The actual killing act achieves nothing in itself.
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    I do not support the death penalty for all murders defending yourself or crimes of passion. You have to take the death penalty by a case by case basis. I beilive if a man rapes and murders a 7 year old that he should die. I just dont beilive you can rehabilatate that and mystate agrees with me.
    The fact your state agrees with you means bugger all, like the fact the rest of the world doesn't agree with you means bugger all, what does matter is whether it is right or wrong and it most certainly is wrong.

    Why do you believe retribution is a good form of justice? Especially when every justifiable reason for having a retributive justice system has been disproven - such as it acting as a deterrant and keeping a fair society.

    Retributive justice degrades justice and makes it all about settling scores rather than being about what is best for the victims, soceity and yes, the criminal. I don't support murder by individuals and I don't support state sanctioned murder either.
    Last edited by JAG; 12-21-2005 at 15:31.
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    yes, but that's not the only thing there is to it. Those who can't be rehabilitated could be innocents, as it's impossible to fully prove guiltiness. If you don't believe he can be rehabilitated, then that only defends longer prison sentences, not the actual act of murder of the guy, because he might, after all, be innocent. Sure, I hate men who rapes and murders 7 years olds, and I doubt more than just a handful throughout history of such people would have any chance at all at rehabilitation. But I would hold back my wrath and lynch mob feeling and consider the possibility of the guy being wrongfully accused. Then it turns out it's possible to achieve the most important result - to keep him away from people that he can hurt, without possibly hurting an innocent, by longer prison sentences. The actual killing act achieves nothing in itself.
    With DNA testing now getting an innocent for murder is hard and even if they were able to he would win on appeal. (I know this wasnt always the case but we were talking now) The actual killing does do something. Why should that man be allowed to live wether he can be rehabilated or not if he killed some one who had done nothing wrong.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  15. #15
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    With DNA testing now getting an innocent for murder is hard and even if they were able to he would win on appeal. (I know this wasnt always the case but we were talking now)
    I could frame you for murder with DNA proof and everything easily if I wanted to commit a murder. All you need is some hair. Every human being loses around 20-50 hairs every day, for example. And can you trust you hairdresser? Can you have sex with a woman without guarding her from being killed for the coming few hours, because if she's killed shortly after you have sex you'll be framed from rape and murder? Think of how easy this system makes it for a man to commit two murders legally. He kills one persons, and frames you for it. He escapes justice, and he doesn't even have to get his hands dirty with the killing of you, as the state does that for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    Why should that man be allowed to live wether he can be rehabilated or not if he killed some one who had done nothing wrong.
    This very statement of yours actually says that the executioner should be killed, doesn't it?
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    I could frame you for murder with DNA proof and everything easily if I wanted to commit a murder. All you need is some hair. Every human being loses around 20-50 hairs every day, for example. And can you trust you hairdresser? Can you have sex with a woman without guarding her from being killed for the coming few hours, because if she's killed shortly after you have sex you'll be framed from rape and murder? Think of how easy this system makes it for a man to commit two murders legally. He kills one persons, and frames you for it. He escapes justice, and he doesn't even have to get his hands dirty with the killing of you, as the state does that for him.
    Youre reaching there buddy. Those in a court a law could easily be dispelled or you would win on appeal that is why we dont here about them in real life maybe in the occasional law & Order episode and even then they catch the real killer



    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    This very statement of yours actually says that the executioner should be killed, doesn't it?
    Um no it dosent thats like saying all soliders are murders. The man has a job he need to feel no guilt
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    Youre reaching there buddy. Those in a court a law could easily be dispelled or you would win on appeal that is why we dont here about them in real life maybe in the occasional law & Order episode and even then they catch the real killer
    So you're not afraid of being framed for murder and executed? You'd just order a normal MacDonalds menu for last supper and relax? Would say "cmon guys, stop that joking" when they read your death sentence and tell you how your entire state want you dead because you're a brutal, impossible to rehabilitate, murderer?

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    Um no it dosent thats like saying all soliders are murders. The man has a job he need to feel no guilt
    The statement said an executioner should be killed if he ever carried out a death penalty sentence where the victim was innocent. Besides an executioner is not a soldier.

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    The man has a job he need to feel no guilt
    Executioners are legalized lust murderers, who are just as dangerous, brutal and vicious as those who kill and get punishments for it. Only a lust murderer would choose executioner as his job.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    So you're not afraid of being framed for murder and executed? You'd just order a normal MacDonalds menu for last supper and relax? Would say "cmon guys, stop that joking" when they read your death sentence and tell you how your entire state want you dead because you're a brutal, impossible to rehabilitate, murderer?
    I have a better chance of being struck by lightning and getting eaten by a shark at the same time.Im willing to take my chances. Its not like we are killing people left and right here. Who the hell says I like McDonalds?

    I still haent seen your consparacy theory in action. Link

    [/quote]Executioners are legalized lust murderers, who are just as dangerous, brutal and vicious as those who kill and get punishments for it. Only a lust murderer would choose executioner as his job.[/quote]

    Execuctioner isnt a job some one from the prison does it. IIRC they take turns or something of that nature.
    Last edited by Strike For The South; 12-21-2005 at 16:04.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  19. #19
    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    Who the hell says I like McDonalds?
    Well, I just tried to give an example of how absurd the very situation is.

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    I still haent seen your consparacy theory in action. Link
    Link is broken. BTW, how would you see it if the one knowing the truth is killed? And "conspiracy theory"? A conspiracy is a group of people in secret planning viciousness or own benefit at the cost of others. It only takes a single human being to frame someone for murder. Imagine somebody is jealous at you and your girlfriend/boyfriend. All that is needed is to kill one of you, and frame the other. He/she can then live happily ever after.
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    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Strike you still haven't answered my concerns with your train of thought...
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    Link is broken. BTW, how would you see it if the one knowing the truth is killed? And "conspiracy theory"? A conspiracy is a group of people in secret planning viciousness or own benefit at the cost of others. It only takes a single human being to frame someone for murder. Imagine somebody is jealous at you and your girlfriend/boyfriend. All that is needed is to kill one of you, and frame the other. He/she can then live happily ever after.
    It has never happend. People have been framed before but now it is nearly impossible
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    No.
    Common Unreflected Drinking Only Smartens

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    Thread killer Member Rodion Romanovich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    It has never happend. People have been framed before but now it is nearly impossible
    No, it's easier now. Now all you need to fool is a machine, not human beings. Earlier you needed to perhaps use extremely clever disguises, schemes for alibi etc. etc. Now? You can follow a person for a day, and without doubt finding a hair. Then go murder, put the hair on the body, then go home. Nobody will ever make any inquiry because the hair proves the framed person was guilty. All traces and evidence is cleared for you by the state, when they execute the innocent man you framed.
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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Strike you still haven't answered my concerns with your train of thought...
    Heres my trian of thought. People who rape and murder 7 year olds or shoot and rob a conveinet store clerk dont deserve life becuase they took it from an innocent.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
    No, it's easier now. Now all you need to fool is a machine, not human beings. Earlier you needed to perhaps use extremely clever disguises, schemes for alibi etc. etc. Now? You can follow a person for a day, and without doubt finding a hair. Then go murder, put the hair on the body, then go home. Nobody will ever make any inquiry because the hair proves the framed person was guilty. All traces and evidence is cleared for you by the state, when they execute the innocent man you framed.
    Link of this? We cant debate theorys can we
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  26. #26
    Things Change Member JAG's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    Heres my trian of thought. People who rape and murder 7 year olds or shoot and rob a conveinet store clerk dont deserve life becuase they took it from an innocent.
    Again, you have still not responded to the problems I posed you with your beliefs. Anything now?
    GARCIN: I "dreamt," you say. It was no dream. When I chose the hardest path, I made my choice deliberately. A man is what he wills himself to be.
    INEZ: Prove it. Prove it was no dream. It's what one does, and nothing else, that shows the stuff one's made of.
    GARCIN: I died too soon. I wasn't allowed time to - to do my deeds.
    INEZ: One always dies too soon - or too late. And yet one's whole life is complete at that moment, with a line drawn neatly under it, ready for the summing up. You are - your life, and nothing else.

    Jean Paul Sartre - No Exit 1944

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    The Sword of Rome Member Marcellus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    With DNA testing now getting an innocent for murder is hard and even if they were able to he would win on appeal. (I know this wasnt always the case but we were talking now)
    Harder, maybe. But still by no means impossible. And as for an appeal, why would the person win an appeal when he lost the original trial?

    Quote Originally Posted by strike for the south
    The actual killing does do something. Why should that man be allowed to live wether he can be rehabilated or not if he killed some one who had done nothing wrong.
    Why is murder illegal? Because human life is precious. Taking life away would make the murderer a wicked person, but would not change the fact that he is a living human. Killing him would be taking away a precious human life, which, we have established, is wrong.
    "Look I’ve got my old pledge card a bit battered and crumpled we said we’d provide more turches churches teachers and we have I can remember when people used to say the Japanese are better than us the Germans are better than us the French are better than us well it’s great to be able to say we’re better than them I think Mr Kennedy well we all congratulate on his baby and the Tories are you remembering what I’m remembering boom and bust negative equity remember Mr Howard I mean are you thinking what I’m thinking I’m remembering it’s all a bit wonky isn’t it?"

    -Wise words from John Prescott

  28. #28
    Member Member Mumu Champion Prodigal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Nope, & I'll tell you why. You can kill someone & their worries are over, if they deserve a really harsh penalty, make the ******* suffer, keep them alive & locked up, throw away the godamn key & let them rot; this has the added benefit that they may REALLY reform, in which case they will understand the enormity of their crime, how its destroyed their life, and the fact that no matter how bloody sorry they are its too late. Try the idea of dwelling on that for 50, 60 years & then which do you think is worse?

    Also, what if you get it wrong...What if they're not guilty, 30 years in chokey for somehting you didn't do is one thing, but you can't release a dead man

  29. #29
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by JAG
    Again, you have still not responded to the problems I posed you with your beliefs. Anything now?
    with what belifs my backwards christian fundemetalism or what?
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  30. #30
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Death penalty - yes or no

    Quote Originally Posted by Prodigal
    Nope, & I'll tell you why. You can kill someone & their worries are over, if they deserve a really harsh penalty, make the ******* suffer, keep them alive & locked up, throw away the godamn key & let them rot; this has the added benefit that they may REALLY reform, in which case they will understand the enormity of their crime, how its destroyed their life, and the fact that no matter how bloody sorry they are its too late. Try the idea of dwelling on that for 50, 60 years & then which do you think is worse?

    Also, what if you get it wrong...What if they're not guilty, 30 years in chokey for somehting you didn't do is one thing, but you can't release a dead man
    Yes but no one really rots in prison anymore granted nobody likes getting buttraped and its still a shity place. Many would take it over death
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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