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  1. #1
    Member Member Ragabash's Avatar
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    Default Realistic Camillian time army?

    I am currently playing roman campaign at Pre marian times.

    My army/armies consists of:

    2 Triariai
    6 Principles
    5 Hastati
    2 Equites
    1 General
    4 For different mercs out there, mainly for archers or javeliners since romans were more kind of slinger people than those.

    What I am missing from historical view in this army as 200BC - 270BC is timeline I have not too much learned about, "yet" ?

    Thanks ahead for everyone who gives critical feedback/suggestions.


    PS. If you want, you can always post your own armies here. They don't need to be realistic or anything. Just explain a bit your army and why did you chose units inside it. It doesn't matter if it's fun based, historical, power or between them.
    Ragabash the trickster

  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member Reenk Roink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    I take:

    6 Hastati
    6 Principes
    3 Triarii
    2 Acensi
    1 Rorari
    1 Equites

    I try to get the proportions right, but of course math is hard, so I'm not exactly sure if this is accurate .
    Last edited by Reenk Roink; 01-02-2006 at 22:53.

  3. #3
    Guest Dayve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    That's pretty much accurate yeah... But am i right in thinking that the Romans relied heavily on their allies on the Italian Peninsula for troops and cavalry...? So shouldn't there be a couple more simple sword/spear armed infantry/cavalry that we can recruit to fight alongside the proper Roman troops?

    Anyway i'm currently at 241BC and my Roman armies consist of 4 hastati, 4 principes, 4 triarii, 3 rorari, 3 accensi, a general and some cavalry... Not always equittes, sometimes i recruit leuce epos or greek hippeis... Of course this is what my army looks like when it's all shiney and new and not yet tested in battle... After the first battle there is usually very little hastati left and currently i'm fighting in north africa and my reinforcements have to come all the way from the peninsula so most armies over there usually end up being whittled down to 6 or 7 rag tag units before they recieve reinforcements... But that's what my armies look like at the moment anyway.

    When i get the next reform i'm planning on using 5 hastati, 5 principes, 3 triarii, 2 of whatever long range missle units will be available to me, 2 or 3 more other kinds of light infantry, a cavalry and a general...

    I use this setup because it's as realistic as i can get and also it works very well... The earliest Roman infantry though is actually pretty weak compared to what everybody else is recruiting... Carthage with their elite african infantry which look like imitation leginaires and the barbarians with their naked fanatics and usually superior infantry...

  4. #4
    Member Member Ragabash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    I think you are correct for the cavarly part, that most Roman cavarly were mercenaries from north. I just find it too "hard" to run one hero to north( rebel terrain in beginning of the game), recruiting all cavarly, bring em back to southern armies for fighting for sicily,southern part of Italy and some Carthagian cities. After taking northen Italy to gain access to gaul cavarly I think I will began to use them.

    As I said I don't know too much of this period.

    So the Romans used mercenaries from northen Italy and Samnites as "elite" swordsmen and spearmen for their army correct?

    I just always tought that before Marian reforms Rome didn't trust so much of their army to mercenaries/auxilaries as they did after reform.

    Thanks very much for your feedback. It seems I have some studying to do regarding this soon
    Last edited by Ragabash; 01-02-2006 at 23:27.
    Ragabash the trickster

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member Reenk Roink's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    There are some good online sites about the topic, I think the EB website may even have a link to a couple.

    Also, a great book to get is Soldiers and Ghosts by J.E Lendon...

  6. #6

    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragabash
    I think you are correct for the cavarly part, that most Roman cavarly were mercenaries from north. I just find it too "hard" to run one hero to north( rebel terrain in beginning of the game), recruiting all cavarly, bring em back to southern armies for fighting for sicily,southern part of Italy and some Carthagian cities. After taking northen Italy to gain access to gaul cavarly I think I will began to use them.

    As I said I don't know too much of this period.

    So the Romans used mercenaries from northen Italy and Samnites as "elite" swordsmen and spearmen for their army correct?

    I just always tought that before Marian reforms Rome didn't trust so much of their army to mercenaries/auxilaries as they did after reform.

    Thanks very much for your feedback. It seems I have some studying to do regarding this soon
    That gives me an idea...

    What if your DIPLOMATS, or SPYS, could do recruiting???

    that would be awesome, and I'd imagine fairly realistic.

  7. #7
    EB Token Radical Member QwertyMIDX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    You'll have to lobby CA for that one, not us.
    History is for the future not the past. The dead don't read.


    Operam et vitam do Europae Barbarorum.

    History does not repeat itself. The historians repeat one another. - Max Beerbohm

  8. #8
    Member Member cunctator's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ragabash
    I think you are correct for the cavarly part, that most Roman cavarly were mercenaries from north. I just find it too "hard" to run one hero to north( rebel terrain in beginning of the game), recruiting all cavarly, bring em back to southern armies for fighting for sicily,southern part of Italy and some Carthagian cities.
    So the Romans used mercenaries from northen Italy and Samnites as "elite" swordsmen and spearmen for their army correct?

    I just always tought that before Marian reforms Rome didn't trust so much of their army to mercenaries/auxilaries as they did after reform.
    Not at this time, only after they had begun to fight wars across the alps in the late Republic. In a standard army of the middle republic around 1/3 of the cavarly were Roman 2/3s from the Socii, other italian people subdued by Rome, that also provided 50 % of the infantry. Their troops were not mercenaries and had to be enrolled whenever the consuls demanded it from them, and received less pay than citizen troops.

    Later we will have some Pre Marian units to represent them.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Realistic Camillian time army?

    Anyone know what ratio you should include rorarri, levees, accensi and cavalry to be "historic"? I read from Adrian Goldsworthy's book on Roman generals that the ratio of other troops in a pre-Marian legion was:
    2 velites: 2 hastati: 2 principes: 1 triari

    Should it be one levee for one hastati or just one for two? (Bearing in mind the different units sizes in EB). How common were rorarri? I read that they were phased out and looking at the stats, I can see why - they don't seem cost-effective, when you can get a much beefer hastati or principes to do the same job much better for roughly the same upkeep. Should I include them just to be authentic?

    A current full stack for me would be:

    4 levees
    4 hastati
    4 principes
    2 triari
    2 accensi
    2 equites
    1 general

    But I suspect I am under-representing the heavy infantry (and rorari).

    Also, anyone got any ideas about a plausible scale for RTW armies? How many legions did Rome have in the period? Is it best to think of half a stack as a legion? Or something else?

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